this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2024
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[–] BrotherL0v3@lemmy.world 134 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

Meanwhile, a few chapters later in the same book:

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

TBH I can't blame Christians for being confused about what love looks like if this is what they believe God says.

EDIT: Upon further reflection, I regret the way thus comment targets believers more than it does the problem in question. See: https://lemmy.world/comment/12608950

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago

TBF you could pick the passages that do good and right for your fellow people and not the ones that are terrible. They ignore stuff they disagree with or find inconvenient all the time. So it’s a choice that says a lot about them for them to ignore the line to treat the asylum seeker or migrant well, but choose to obey some interpretation that does others harm.

[–] Broken_Orange_Juice@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The Mosaic laws are really quite interesting. These verses can work in tandem with those in Leviticus 19. There later is the understanding of why we were given the Mosaic laws, just for Jesus to disagree with them a bit later, which is explained in Matthew 19:3-8. "

3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning."

Many of the things discussed in the Pentateuch (first 5 books of the Bible, where the Mosaic laws lie), are just about how to live their day to day lives, and at the time they had many slaves, something that they wouldn't be willing to change. Instead of this, God commands how to treat these slaves. The Old Testament is full of confusing stuff, but it certainly isn't just from "the Jew section of the Bible" as suggested in another comment. It has value, but they must be understood through a specific lens, understanding the lives of the people God is talking to.

[–] BrotherL0v3@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

Thanks for the comment. If I may quibble:

and at the time they had many slaves[...]

If memory serves, the Mosaic laws are said to be delivered to the Jews 90 days into their wandering in the desert after crossing the Red Sea. Which means that the people who received these rules about slavery were all recently freed former slaves. Unless they immediately started re-enslaving each other while wandering the desert with manna raining from heaven and water springing up from the rocks, I would think that none of them owned slaves.

[...]something that they wouldn't be willing to change. Instead of this, God commands how to treat these slaves.

That line of reasoning has never sat right with me.

God doesn't want people to kill. He knows people will do it anyway. He doesn't say "Make it quick and painless when you kill someone." He says "Thou shalt not kill."

God doesn't want people to steal. He knows people will do it anyway. He doesn't say "Only steal from people who are well off and can afford to lose some possessions." He says "Thou shalt not steal."

I cannot imagine the guy who tells people to cut some skin off the end of their penis has any problem with making big asks of people.

EDIT: Upon further reflection, I regret the way thus comment targets believers more than it does the problem in question. See: https://lemmy.world/comment/12608950

[–] syreus@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

There is no archeological evidence of Israelites residing in Egypt at the time of Moses nor of their enslavement there.

It is widely agreed that the tribes of Israel decended from Canaanites and other locals.

I wish modern christians would revise the bible. It's not like they haven't done it before.

[–] zloubida@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There's no time of Moses. Moses is a mythical character (a lot of Christian like myself has no problems with the findings of archeology).

[–] syreus@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

I can't speak with confidence on the existence of Moses or a figure that was the basis of the legend.

By the "time of Moses" I mean around 1300BCE.

It's hard to prove a man didn't exist. It's easy to state there is no evidence of Exodus as biblically described.

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[–] bisby@lemmy.world 87 points 1 month ago

When old testament says to love someone instead of just smiting people, you know that shit is serious.

[–] Schmoo@slrpnk.net 85 points 1 month ago (8 children)

When I was young growing up Southern Baptist there was one time where the pastor preached about this verse, and the whiplash I felt when I heard family members bad-mouthing immigrants the moment they stepped outside is partly what led me to read the Bible myself, which led to me losing my faith.

[–] capital@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

Hello fellow former southern Baptist.

I hate to admit it took me way too long to realize the blatant hypocrisy.

Glad you made it out.

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[–] Fester@lemm.ee 84 points 1 month ago (5 children)

“That’s from the Jew section of the Bible.”

[–] manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 51 points 1 month ago (4 children)

There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galations 3:28

damn it just keeps coming up! Its like this whole bible thing was really trying to get this whole 'dont be a dickhead' point home, shame its not working so well

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[–] BossDj@lemm.ee 19 points 1 month ago

That same section they always quote to hate on gay people

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[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 43 points 1 month ago

Half them can’t read, so they don’t know it exists.

The other half find their inability to read useful and don’t bother explaining so they can keep being assholes.

[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 31 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Simply put the old testament is the pick and choose portion of the bible. Only slightly more complex is their ability to ignore similar sentiment in the new testament.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yeah, the sequel retconned a bunch, but is actually more "love your neighbor" and way less violent than the original.

But the it has that weird Paul tangent that's just a collection of letters from a former Christian-hunter that changed sides where he gets really judgy about other Christians and he starts telling them how to act.

[–] MehBlah@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Started the process that made the only female apostle a whore. Only recently has that bit of self serving propaganda been debunked.

Edit: Found this. It isn't the same article I read several years ago but it examines the text of the gospels and even paul couldn't deny she was the first to spot jesus when he came out of his coma. https://uscatholic.org/articles/201603/who-framed-mary-magdalene/

[–] Isa 31 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

The artwork is giving off serious Asterix and Obeid vibes; do you know where it’s from?

[–] nouben@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Man you are not going to believe this... Asterix and Obelix

[–] thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago (4 children)

For real? Damn, talk about an iconic art style! Do you happen to know which story this is from?

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[–] cybervseas@lemmy.world 29 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But they hate themselves so maybe it's consistent in a weird way.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago

this doesn't hurt anyone, why would I pick this verse

[–] SouthFresh@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Old Testament is too easy for them to ignore

[–] BilliamBoberts@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Ok, how about from the New Testament: "Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.” - Mark 12:31

[–] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 month ago

Matthew 25:31-46 is one of the few places in the Bible where Jesus specifically says something will send you to hell, but avoiding that involves treating homeless people and immigrants like people so I guess they’d rather go to hell. They get REALLY mad if you point this out, because they’re more into weekly vibes-based meetings with people in their social class than following the teachings of the religion.

Full versesMatthew 25:31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,f you did it to me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’45Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

[–] todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 5 points 1 month ago

Bible: "Love your neighbor"

Christian: Loves everyone in their wealthy gated neighborhood. Hates everyone else.

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[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

Any of it is. They've always cherry-picked.

[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

Unless it reinforces their reactionary beliefs.

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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago

Or Matthew 25:40  “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago

They're more of the 'conquest and smashing babies against the rocks' kind of old testament.

[–] MoonRaven@feddit.nl 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But then they'd also have to abide to the ones about not judging other people since only God can do that...

[–] Kraven_the_Hunter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Yes, but God told them so it's okay.

[–] MoonRaven@feddit.nl 4 points 1 month ago

Ah, I forgot I was being silly. Sorry about that.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 12 points 1 month ago

Because their religion isn't christ, it's racism

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you."

James 5:1-6

[–] piccolo@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago

If these "christians" could read, they'll be really upset.

[–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

I swear, it's almost like you don't want to hate outsiders. What's wrong with you?

[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

And then take the foreskin of all the conquered and offer them to King David as a blood tribute to God.

Next paragraph on the bible, probably.

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