What, really?
I mean, holy shit, I'm not going to question divine providence from fucking Jupiter or whoever the fuck it is watching over elections, so, hey, you know, what convinces you convinces you.
this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024
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I feel like even though biden didn't perform well, trump just said way too many obvious lies. Like saying the nazi rally in charlottesville was just a lie made up by biden?? Despite there being photos of it???
It's basically just depends if you stayed tuned. I mean I have perfect sympathy for someone who watched the first 15 or 20 minutes and then turn it off because you know damn. However the longer it went the worst Trump got and Biden kind of leveled out though never got impressive by any means.
I mean, I stayed until the end but my drinking skyrocketed. I honestly don’t remember the end. It was rough. Being a little informed I knew good and well that Trump was absolutely dodging the questions and laying down outright lies and propaganda, but every time I looked at Biden… holy fuck.
I guess I'm a cynic - I didn't expect anyone not already convinced that Trump was a liar to be convinced by his usual performance. But I guess most people don't spend their time chewing their fingers down to the bone religiously watching political developments like some of us do.
Probably healthier for them.
I opened lemmy a few days ago to check the news after taking a break for a few days.
I hadn't even read anything yet and I felt my adrenaline start.
Or the lovely didn’t have sex with a porn star.
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Unfortunately the title makes it sound like they're talking about undecided voters in general, when the story is about a specific group of people that were interviewed.
Reading that article felt like I had fallen for a bait and switch.
(edit: "Clickbait and switch"? Is that a thing?)
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At least Biden attempted to directly answer questions. Trump repeatedly evaded them to talk about whatever he wanted during his allotted time.
Biden struggled to recall accurate information.
Trump effortlessly ranted and lied.
Both were embarrassing. One was worse.
Both were embarrassing. One was worse.
Oh, no doubt. I'm just not used to 'swing voters' agreeing with me on the subject.
That’s true. It’s crazy to consider. They’ve both served one term. There is a proven track record of successes and failures. Anyone undecided must not have been paying attention.
Trump has never proven if he can recall accurate information either though.
He doesn’t need to do that for his own camp. He just needs to sound like he’s winning an argument.
The undecided voters may have been waiting for clear substantiation of goals and accomplishments. Biden did a terrible job explaining his own, but Trump was clearly evasive with the majority of his responses.
It's newsweek so probably not, unfortunately. They reference a single Unilever focus group of Hispanic/Latino undecideds. Not sure that's enough to justify this title at all.
I mean, I'd count ANYONE being convinced by the other night's performance as a surprise at this point. Was not a high moment for democracy.
It's a single focus group of specifically undecided Latino voters. Only more standardised and statistically significant polling will give a better estimation. Could there be an unexpected, seemingly paradoxical effect? Maybe, shit is complicated, yo. Politics are a chaotic system at times. I personally doubt it, but, hey, we will see.
But this article in particular? To be blunt: It is cope.
This is exactly how you do experiments in social sciences. You need one off events like a debate or Supreme Court decision. Gathering people in a room like this ensures they all watch the debate and don't change the channel or something.
"Cope" is listening to talking heads and ignoring actual experiments like this one. Donald Trump loses among Latinos when people listen to him. That's what this tells me.
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I mean, this is pretty standard for Biden. He has had that stutter and aphasia for decades.
And yes, if your goal is a Reaction video or to call him weak and push an accelerationist agenda, that is horrible.
Anyone else? "Okay, he said th-th-thousands when he meant millions. It happens and it shouldn't but people should also not be taking hard statistics from political speeches. Wait, they made fourteen fucking million jobs??!?"
There is no argument that Biden did not accomplish what he needed to on Wednesday. He and the Democratic Party fucked up. But trump also did not accomplish what he needed to do and I think we mostly came out net neutral. Is net neutral at all acceptable at this point? No. But Biden has shown, time and time again, that he is really good at winning people over over time.
Hope you're right. I'm all-in for a Biden victory, of course, because I'm not a lunatic or a fascist, but God, Biden ain't good for my nerves, that much is for sure.
It’s hard to vote for Joe Biden but it’s really fucking easy to vote against Donald Trump.
Why is it so important that everyone vocalize exactly how reluctant they are to vote for Biden? Has his administration really done so poorly? I understand the frustration with Israel but that has more to do with us as a country historically as well as with how strong our ties with Israel are. I don't know how fast everyone expects us to break all those bonds, and they somehow expect there to be no backlash either?
Apparently patience is just gone in the internet age.
After watching the debate, it’s natural for many of us on the left to feel a little queasy about voting for Biden. The man’s time has long since passed. It makes sense that many would feel compelled to vocalize their reluctance while still voting for him.
I will vote for Biden, but this whole situation is a shit show and I worry for the future of the country. Hopefully the DNC can get their shit together and drum up some solid candidates moving forward because the republicans show no sign of moving away from the far right.
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I think that some of us hoped "strong ties" would maybe stop at "enabling genocide." Biden has signaled disapproval, but the US is also basically threatening the ICC for making a warrant for bibi. Absolutely unhinged shit. Dude is unquestionably a war criminal.
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If "hey look at this poll of left handed middle income women in swing states, Trump is ahead 86 points" is bullshit
Then "this one focus group of 8 Hispanic voters thought Biden did great, time to stop worrying" is also bullshit
Wait to see the polls. I am anticipating them showing some loss for Biden because the average American would rather have a vigorous insurrectionist running the country, than a visibly old person with good policy ideas. I would love to be shown proof that I am wrong in that but this isn't it. I think Biden's great, but he does still have to win the election, and the debate wasn't a good showing for him, and one little focus group doesn't change that and doesn't justify the broad sweeping headline here.
I mean, a sample of 8 is not really a sample, but I can see it being true for some undecided voters if those voters are savvy to know a lie when they see one (plus not everyone cares about the age narrative).
That said, how is anyone undecided at this point? I wouldn't exactly trust them to breathe and walk at the same time, let alone vote informed.
Doom and gloom aside, we're still a few months out so things happening now aren't going to make a huge difference. I just wish this wasn't all up to indecisive people in indecisive states...
Not saying I get it, but most undecided voters I know are undecided between voting for Biden and not voting. They don't seem to care about the implications of a Trump presidency, and nothing can get through to them. They just don't want to vote for Biden.
Obligatory, I'm holding my nose in November
i didn't want to vote for Biden in 2020, either, so i voted Green.
i was in NY at the time, so my vote didn't matter, but now that i'm a in red/swing state, I'm def voting Biden just to cut across that Trump edge.
Agreed.
'undecided' = "unsure if I give a fuck enough to go vote for my side"
This seems to have been true for awhile now. The two parties are so different, it's hard to imagine anyone bouncing between the two as if they were close enough to compare.
Which is honestly why I find a lot of the democratic campaigning and rhetoric weird. It seems to still be trying to cater to a group I don't think exists, instead of trying to excite their existing voter base enough into actually voting.
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I agree with you. My thinking is, as a politically active person who is around politically active people from all over the spectrum, that no one has really heard from Trump in the past 3 years, besides the ones that wanted too. I've heard his voice maybe 10 times? Heard about him, of course, but not from him.
While the debate was an absolute shitshow, Trump was Trump. He reminded everyone for 90 minutes what it was like to have him in every room, on every channel, at every dinner table, and in every conversation. Undecideds are who they are, but they didn't like that in 2020 when they voted for Biden. People's memories are short and I think they forgot how terrible he was.
People were pissed at me calling this yesterday.
I was wondering why they all abruptly stopped messaging me a couple hours ago.
The decided voters are where they are.
If you're undecided, and you watch this debate with an open mind, there's only one logical conclusion if you want your life to get better, and that's to vote for Biden.
It was 4 years of trump damaging the US, telling lies and objectively being shown not to follow through on what he says, then being found liable for rape and treason.
Even though Biden mumbled some words, his answered questions were believable because they were in line with the last 4 years of his administration, that have been great for civil rights,the environment, sustainable technology, infrastructure and the economy.
No-brainer for the undecided.
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Who is "undecided" after 8 years of dealing with this clown? Have these people been in a coma?
Or is it the usual I'm embarrassed to tell you I'll be voting for fascism "undecided"?
Some people are actually torn between the two, their close family and community lives are so intermingled with both that they actually are both seen as reasonable choices and are waiting to hear more about them to make a decision.
I don't see anything wrong with people waiting to see the candidates speak unassisted for nearly 2 hours in a rapid fire debate setting where they had to:
- Lay out their vision for the future
- Defend past decisions since both were/are president
- Handle the juvenile bickering that is bound to happen
Its one of the most honest and open displays of exactly who these candidates are, and even though I was already likely to vote Biden, I do feel better after hearing his IDEAS and THOUGHTS despite how he said them.
Switch undecided with unmotivated.
They might not care to remember to vote in November
OTOH, this is Newsweek. Take it with a grain of salt, pending confirmation from a more credible source.
Weird title when the split they cite is 45% and 44% not going to lie. I cant find out why that implies what the titles says.
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