this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2024
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[–] MadhuGururajan@programming.dev 4 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Isn't this not possible considering that the U.S Supreme Court threw out the Chevron Doctrine?

[–] roguetrick@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

It's the courts themselves that would have to break them up, so it's not an issue there. It's just a very high bar to clear because the courts don't care about anticompetitive practices unless it has a detrimental effect on the consumer. You'd be hard pressed to argue that things like YouTube and Gmail coupled with the cloud service, the ad service and the phone service are causing actual harm to the consumer that competition wouldn't. I don't see how YouTube would survive in its current form if it used third party ads, hosting, and CDN, the same way prime video and twitch are very dependent on Amazon Web services. Back in the day, for example, interurban electric trolleys were often owned by power companies. They used the power company's right of way for the electric lines for the tracks too and of course their power. That's anticompetitive, but frankly good for the consumer. That said, I wouldn't be sad to see it burn in a fire either.

[–] bitjunkie@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago

Wake me up when (if) something ever actually happens.

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What about a BlackRock break-up

[–] unphazed@lemmy.world 4 points 21 hours ago

They get around it I think because they never seem to buy more than 45% shares... just they literally own a percentage of damn near every company

[–] Jackcooper@lemmy.world 35 points 1 day ago (3 children)
  1. Aetna CVS Caremark
  2. Cigna Express Scripts
  3. fucking ticketmaster
  4. Google
  5. Kroger (and they want to merge AGAIN?)

Let's start here for now

[–] unphazed@lemmy.world 3 points 21 hours ago

TM is low on my list. Healthcare, Amazon, Google as top priorities.

[–] demizerone@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago
[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

This is why I'm excited to vote for a democrat. Does anyone think Trump wants to pursue all these cases? Nah. First thing he'll shut down is everything that might save us a dollar.

[–] DrunkEngineer@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Doubt they're going to rehire Barr after he refused to fuck around with the elections, but good point.

[–] fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

Good. But let's not pretend they won't merge back like what the Baby Bells did back in the early aughts.

[–] astrsk@fedia.io 180 points 2 days ago (12 children)

Apple and Amazon next please.

[–] CrazyLikeGollum@lemmy.world 139 points 2 days ago (4 children)

And Microsoft for monopoly reasons.

Add AT&T, Time-Warner, and all of the other ISPs that own streaming platforms for anticompetitive reasons.

[–] jabjoe@feddit.uk 1 points 19 hours ago

MS were going to be broken up at one point. https://time.com/3553242/microsoft-monopoly/

[–] unphazed@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

ATT just sold all ownership of DTV. They could smell the sharks.

[–] xkbx@startrek.website 38 points 2 days ago (2 children)
[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 26 points 2 days ago

Ma Bell: "Just do a T-1000, pull yourself back together slowly over a decade or two."

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[–] Enkrod 14 points 2 days ago

Uhh, do Disney!

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 72 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Frankly, Sinclair Broadcast Group needs to be shattered most urgently.

[–] unphazed@lemmy.world 3 points 21 hours ago

It was total BS when the limit on local broadcast ownership was released. The average consumer pays $5 per local channel on streaming and cable now. It's a damn broadcast station, it's free OTA.

[–] breadsmasher@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

Serious question as I guess I am unaware - What does apple have a monopoly on?

edit - thanks to everyone for the detailed responses! Much appreciated

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 50 points 2 days ago

Apple engages in anti competitive practices, I'm not sure they need to be broken up as much as the US needs to follow the EU and mandate third party app stores, standard connectors, and interoperability.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 31 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The popular argument I've heard is that they have a vertical integration model which has been deemed monopolistic within other industries in the past.

The common example that would have been used is the old Hollywood studio system, when studios not only owned their lots where the movies were made, but they handled all of the distribution, owned most of the theaters where the films would premiere, owned their own film formats, and locked their big-name stars into contracts which had strict non-compete agreements.

It wasn't impossible to be an independent theater owner and have the ability to choose what films you wanted to show, but it was very hard and required accepting a number of conditions:

  • You will pay more for movies than the studio-owned theaters effectively do, which means your tickets need to be more expensive to pay your costs.
  • You are subjected to "block booking", where you can't show only popular movies, you are also forced to buy a studio's less popular films as bundles and give them appropriate screen time or the studios won't sell.
  • You also need to buy a studio's proprietary projection equipment, because it is made intentionally incompatible with the formats of other studios.

The studio system was eventually deemed monopolistic by the US Supreme Court in their ruling US v. Paramount, and that allowed independent theaters to thrive and for artists to switch to contract work without the strict non-compete agreements. But I have to say "the common example that would have been used," because the conservative-stacked Supreme Court revisited their ruling in US v. Paramount that banned the vertical integration model in Hollywood and decided it was no longer needed, so studios are once again free to resume those old practices if they wish.

So in the case of Apple, the monopoly criticism applies to their vertical integration model which draws some parallels to the old Hollywood studio system that was once deemed monopolistic:

  • Apple designs and produces their own devices.
  • Apple produces their own operating systems, which are exclusive to those devices.
  • Apple produces their own suite of core apps, which are given preferential treatment by their operating systems.
  • Apple develops their own technology standards, which are not available to third parties without additional licensing fees (e.g. the Lightning connector, up until the EU forced them to start adopting USB-C).
  • Apple hosts their own app store, which is the only app distribution method allowed on their mobile platforms.
  • Apple requires third-party apps to agree to their store's terms to be published on the platform, which prohibits any pricing model in which Apple does not get a cut.

For third-party app developers, it means that even if you have your own revenue model beyond Apple's involvement, you are not allowed to extend that to your iOS app without giving Apple their cut, which is why you see so many apps now just declaring that they are "for subscribers" without allowing you to subscribe in the app or giving instructions for where to subscribe. And it's not possible to publish an app on iOS without going through Apple's store and agreeing to their business model because Apple does not allow third-party app stores and heavily restricts sideloading.

Because Apple also gives preferential treatment to their own apps, it is hard to be "as good" as their own offerings, and there will always be a risk of Apple deciding to make some new category of app for a use case that third-parties currently satisfy but may get shut out of.

[–] _bcron_@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Sometimes a writer will use what they feel is a more recognizable but 'technically incorrect' word as a colloquialism for a less-used term that's more accurate, and then go into more detail in the article, but it's good and proper to wrap that colloquialism in apostrophes ('air quotes').

But in this specific case, it was ruled that Google has a monopoly on general website searches and that they have utilized a variety of anti-competitive practices to bolster their presence as such.

Not dissimilar to Microsoft's antitrust case in the late 90s, specifically regarding Internet Explorer. It was a very small chunk of a much larger antitrust suit but they were found to have used Windows in order to stifle competition for web browsers and maintain their standing as the dominant browser (they also leveraged their market share for Windows and IE with OEMs and ISPs respectively but I'm digressing).

Microsoft was ordered to split, or spin off their browser business into a different entity, but they settled with DOJ on appeal (probably what we'll see come of this - Google will probably make a big long list of things they will change or no longer engage in, and the government will feel as though all those changes will be sufficient remedy)

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[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

Personally I would prefer they break up all the companies that produce, distribute, and sell our food.

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[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 days ago

I'll be ecstatic if that happens, but I won't hold my breath. It should have been done a long time ago for so many mega corpos, but here we are.

[–] Peffse@lemmy.world 48 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Google saw this coming years ago. That's why they restructured, clearly defining their different services, and became Alphabet.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 1 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

They already lost the case for the monopoly ruling, though? It seems like what you described was designed to prevent that and already failed.

[–] unphazed@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

Yeah I seriously think they figured it would have happened sooner.

[–] IcyToes@sh.itjust.works 44 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (7 children)

As much as I want this to happen, I fear it'll drag on for years and then never happen or end up watered down where they split the company and manage them independently (a bit like BT in the UK but still owned by Alphabet.

[–] The_v@lemmy.world 33 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The last major antitrust action on this scale in the U.S. 8 years to process.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System

This type of lawsuit is why the billionaire bro's are backing the senile rapist and felon. Making them play somewhat fair ruins their business plan.

[–] firadin@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A major issue for the US is that when the president changes, the DOJ can simply elect to stop processing the suit. It's hard to get 8 years of uninterrupted movement on an action like this.

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 2 days ago

Yeah I will believe it when I see it. I'm not convinced that actual Teddy Roosevelt-style "trust busting" is something that is even possible in the modern US.

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[–] uberdroog@lemmy.world 47 points 2 days ago

Do EVERY other industry next.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 16 points 2 days ago

Shit or get off the pot.

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 21 points 2 days ago

Excellent! Break them up.

[–] Dasnap@lemmy.world 20 points 2 days ago (10 children)

Any guesses on how this would affect Android and Firefox?

I'm not 100% on how the Android business works so I'm not sure how important Goggle's involvement is.

Firefox relies on Google's 'default search engine' bribe quite a lot, and they might not be able to offer that anymore(?)

[–] secretfoxtail@lemmy.ca 27 points 2 days ago

Android has been largely gutted and depends more and more on google play services, with few exceptions like some AOSP-based roms like lineageos, iodeOS, etc

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