this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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[–] Vorticity@lemmy.world 301 points 5 days ago (34 children)

It is amazing to me how short our memories are as a species. There are people who are still in congress who had polio. There are an estimated 300,000 people still alive in the US who survived polio. Even with that, the nominated head of Health and Human Services wants to do away with the polio vaccine.

I don't know what the problem is. Is it a lack of empathy? Is it willingness to swallow the bait surrounding conspiracy theories? Is it just a lack of education? How did we get to the point where it is even remotely okay for the future head of Heath and Human Services to be against the polio vaccine?

If being pro-polio isn't disqualifying for being the head of HHS, and if he gets confirmed, the U.S. will have very clearly shown that it is in rapid decline. It will have shown that the government is corrupt to its core and is irredeemable.

[–] sexy_peach 116 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Is it a lack of empathy?

Yes, it's a disregard for human life

[–] Vorticity@lemmy.world 34 points 5 days ago (4 children)

I think that is true for some of the people involved, but I think it is much more complicated than that. There are many people who think vaccines do more harm than good because they believe conspiracy theories and junk science. Not everyone against vaccines is malicious. Some must be, though, for such bullshit to keep propagating the way that it does.

[–] Tinidril@midwest.social 49 points 5 days ago (6 children)

Most of Trump's cabinet ranges from morally indifferent to outright hostile to human beings. The only exception I think I see is RFK Jr. who is just batshit insane.

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[–] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 50 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Even with that, the nominated head of Health and Human Services wants to do away with the polio vaccine.

.....I'm sorry, what?

GOD DAMMIT! GET LUIGI MORE BULLETS! THE JOB'S NOT DONE!!!

[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago

Oh yeah we're so fucked. As well as believing that vaccines cause autism, RFK believes that HIV doesn't lead to AIDS. He literally believes that "something about the gay lifestyle" causes it.

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[–] Fondots@lemmy.world 36 points 4 days ago

My dad remembers from his childhood occasionally seeing houses placed under quarantine for diseases like measles and then at some point thanks to vaccines measles pretty much just stopped being a thing in most of the US. He got his polio and smallpox vaccines back in the day, and has lived to see smallpox eradicated and polio nearly so.

My grandfather was born a couple years after the 1918 flu pandemic, he had a brother born a couple years before him who died in infancy, he never talked about it much but the timing lines up that his brother was likely a victim of that pandemic. It was certainly something he heard talked about in his childhood just as we'll probably keep talking about COVID for years to come, and I think it definitely left an impact on him, he always was wary about passing germs along to his grandchildren, he always warned our parents against kissing us and never did himself, the only time he did was on his literal deathbed (cancer, nothing communicable) when he kissed my sister (in a non-creepy familial way) as probably one of his last conscious acts.

He was never one to shy away from a fight, I would have loved to see the hell he would have raised against anti-maskers if he'd lived another decade or so. There are people his age or older still walking among us. These things aren't even out of living memory, we're barely a handful of generations removed from them.

The chickenpox vaccine was introduced when I was in elementary school. I remember a lot of children's shows when I was growing up having a chickenpox episode where one or more of the main characters would get chickenpox, they'd take oatmeal baths and slather on calamine lotion to ease the itching, their parents would discuss having their friends over to get them infected early and give them immunity, etc. It kind of seemed like it was inevitable that many if not most kids would get chickenpox eventually, and at the time it kind of was. The vaccine was still optional at the time, and I remember a lot of discussion about it not being very effective, but a lot of kids in my age range got it, and the number of kids in my school who got chickenpox was probably in the dozens instead of probably hundreds just a few years earlier.

There have been some missteps along the way, my dad had a small hepatitis scare when a blood test turned up antibodies (though no active infection) likely from exposure from reused vaccine needles when he was in the army. The US did a grave disserve to polio vaccination efforts by using them as a cover to track down bin Laden and increased distrust in the vaccine in the process. There have been cases where vaccines have used ingredients that have proven unsafe, where people have had adverse reactions, etc. but still overall, the fact that I have never met anyone who has had smallpox, polio, or measles and probably never will speaks volumes about how much more good than harm vaccines do when 100 years ago I would almost certainly have known people who had died or left disabled or disfigured by those diseases.

[–] Jinna@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Paraphrasing from a recent episode of Behind the Bastards on the Vioxx scandal: There's a lot of recency bias in humans where it's difficult to look past the fuckups of the pharma industry. If their "current" MO is to make a shit ton of money at the cost of human lives, then why would someone with lesser critical thinking skills trust them? One needs quite a bit more faculties to separate the capitalism from the good they are doing and tell apart what's trustworthy and what not.

So pharma fucked their bed spectacularly and aren't doing fuck all to restore trust. And that's very sad considering how important they could be if they wanted to.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So pharma fucked their bed spectacularly and aren’t doing fuck all to restore trust.

It goes farther than that, because of how aggressively the US has resisted drug imports and fear mongered against foreign science and development.

The post-COVID "vaccine diplomacy" of European and Chinese state pharmaceutical providers (hell, Cuba even developed a variant) was matched with a flood of early US reporting that amounted to "don't trust any vaccine that isn't American!!!" Then there was a dirty war between domestic providers over whose vaccine was the best.

All that propaganda took its toll.

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[–] rayyy@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago (2 children)

There are people who are still in congress who had polio.

Mitch McConnel.

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[–] UncleGrandPa@lemmy.world 106 points 4 days ago (2 children)

In 1955... Most people personally knew someone aflicted with polio. They knew how bad it was

[–] SOB_Van_Owen@lemm.ee 56 points 4 days ago (5 children)

In Appalachia, it was unlikely to not know someone on a vent or dead from Covid, yet...

[–] hperrin@lemmy.ca 42 points 4 days ago (14 children)

Fox News tells you not to believe your eyes, and conservatives trust Fox News more than their own eyes.

[–] hume_lemmy@lemmy.ca 23 points 4 days ago

Their final, most essential command.

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[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 118 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (9 children)

Maybe we're going about this the wrong way. We know what kind of country we live in, a nation of proud, almost patriotic willful ignorance. By design. An laborer ignorant to who is fucking them is a dependable laborer, after all.

So in the spirit of playing to the audience we have, have we tried rebranding the "vaccines" as, and I'm just spitballing here, Freedom Blessings, Robert E Lee Juice, The Joe Rogan Vein Experience, or the Prove You Hate Commies Test?

[–] monotremata@lemmy.ca 47 points 4 days ago (6 children)

I had a thought along the same lines. I was thinking we should coin the term "immunition," and tell people it was a way to arm your immune system to defend itself. It's not even all that misleading.

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[–] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 140 points 4 days ago (4 children)

I used to think one of the biggest reasons there's so many antivaxx people is that, because they're so effective, people no longer have the fear of seeing their children in an iron lung, struggling to breathe. Then Covid respirators happened and antivaxx fucks somehow got worse

[–] SaharaMaleikuhm 57 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Most people on this planet are idiots.

[–] excral 32 points 4 days ago

The average person is quite stupid and about half the people are even stupider (sic)

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[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 42 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It's also why Trump is president-elect currently. People are stupid and are forgetting just how bad things can be.

[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 31 points 4 days ago (7 children)

They forgot about 4 years ago.

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[–] makyo@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago

And then we ingested a bunch of lead through our lungs

[–] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 3 days ago

5G hadn't been invented yet. They had nothing to worry about back then.

/s

[–] Reygle@lemmy.world 62 points 4 days ago (2 children)

"We're not gonna make it, are we? Humans I mean" -John Connor- Terminator 2

[–] hangman@lemm.ee 43 points 4 days ago

“It’s in your nature to destroy yourselves”

-the terminator

[–] orbitz@lemmy.ca 13 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I could feel my dread go as I heard that lines over the years, as a young teen? Of course we will we always have, we endure. As a middle aged adult? I'm not so sure we aren't going to shove ourselves back to the cave man era and not enough people will listen to anyone with survival knowledge for the species to survive.

Then I think about how many species that must have and will happen to in this vast universe, so we'll probably be an average result heh in the grand scheme of things that is.

[–] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago

we always have, we endure. As a middle aged adult? I'm not so sure we aren't going to shove ourselves back to the cave man era

If we do, we're stuck there. We don't have enough fossil fuel left to re-industrialize

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[–] arc@lemm.ee 60 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

RFK jr is going to kill and cripple a lot more kids if he gets the chance to. He'll make pretend polio / measles is eradicated and then somebody will get on a plane where there are cases, and it will spread amongst the unvaxxed and kids will die. When this happens he should be charged with negligent homicide but I doubt that will happen.

[–] Carighan@lemmy.world 20 points 3 days ago

But he don't care, because:

  • It mostly kills poor people
  • He is vaccinated
  • His kids are vaccinated
  • He couldn't give any less fucks about people if you paid him for it. And he is being paid to not give a fuck about people's lives.
[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 91 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Quite the difference from how half the US population reacted to a Covid vaccine. The power of political propaganda and social media conspiracy theories.

[–] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 62 points 4 days ago (3 children)

And how those same people are cheering about Captain Brainworm's intentions to discontinue the polio vaccine.

Behold the power of mass lead poisoning. We truly live in the most stupid timeline.

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 25 points 4 days ago (2 children)

I think this is just the US returning to its pre super power roots. More and more it seems like the last 80 years were seen exception and now they are returning back to where they were before the world wars.

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[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 17 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I think if COVID was leaving people paralyzed it would never have been what it became. The fallout from COVID was bad but maybe not bad enough.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

I remember semi trailers being used as morgue extensions at hospitals. Every ventilator in the nation being claimed. People rasping out a good bye over FaceTime before going on a ventilator to probably die. It claimed a million people and the only reason that isn't the official number is because Trump and the GOP refused to count the bodies.

It was absolutely bad enough. But humans are capable of great self deception.

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[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 102 points 4 days ago (7 children)

NGL, I was choked up in my car when I was lined up for my very first COVID jab.

Honestly thought it was over, and the events since have informed much of my cynicism about our species.

[–] themurphy@lemmy.ml 53 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (6 children)

Polio can't be compared to COVID when you talk about vaccines.

COVID mutates like the flu, meaning a vaccine was never meant to eradicate it. It simply can't.

COVID vaccines still help to prevent severe illness, but it was never a permanent cure.

People were morons, but even if we all did what we were told to do, COVID would still exist.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 22 points 4 days ago (1 children)

My favorite thing about social media is people who argue for no good reason other than to entertain themselves.

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[–] john89@lemmy.ca 8 points 3 days ago

If anything, this should tell us the trolls won.

Or at least have been more successful then they ever should have been.

[–] zephorah@lemm.ee 56 points 5 days ago (11 children)

RFK and conspiracy thinking right alongside Luigi are ALL symptoms indicating the same problem: a health care system that enriches CEOs at the bankruptcy and death of the masses.

At base it’s like the Hepatitis C cure when it rolled out. A $ amount is put on this cure, only X number of people get it each month, up to a certain $ amount across all claimants, and the rest are SOL. Healthcare itself is like that. We did 18 NICU babies already this month, or we did 32 cardiac cath procedures this month, time to delay, deny, defend.

Wouldn’t it be cool if you could figure a way around needing that healthcare? If you could do 6 simple steps that are entirely under your own power, cheaply or for free, and fix your health on your own? What a dream that would be. This need for health independence is as predictable as a Luigi.

RFK is like a cherry on the shit sundae of our present system. He’s symbolic of the need for something other that we can maybe have more control over. Unfortunately, drinking raw milk has a higher potential of adding more problems.

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[–] KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 23 points 4 days ago (5 children)

We are entering a stupid age, for which we may never recover.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 20 points 4 days ago (3 children)

On the other hand, half a century earlier-

So I guess the stupid waxes and wanes?

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[–] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Oh how humanity hath fallen

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[–] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 14 points 4 days ago (13 children)

I think social media algorithms have fried people's brains. Imagine we'd ban them, go back to content being kinda diverse and random, without adversaries able to game the system and push massive swaths of propaganda to people. The fact alone that most youths get their news from freaking TicTok of all places...

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