this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2024
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[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 66 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Those HR people who make the listing don't understand most of it anyway.

[–] Pechente 22 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

It’s also ridiculous how often I see „Java“ instead of „JavaScript“ in job listings.

Edit: Not trying to judge Java here, this is purely about recruiters not knowing the difference, posting jobs for Java devs when they need JS devs

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[–] luciferofastora@lemmy.zip 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

"I'm looking fora Data Analyst"

"Gotcha, we put up an ad for Data Science"

"No, Data Analyst, that's diff-"

"Here, we already got some applicants"

"They'll be very disappointed to learn that I'm not interested in their AI skills"

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I'm learning how many names there are now for "person who can shoot and edit video" since I last needed to look for a job in my field. To the point that I suddenly find a new keyword and there's like 10 more jobs I can apply for.

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 55 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Yes, and then don’t provide “real” answers at the interview, make up stuff they want to hear, be friendly and create small talk with a complete stranger, act like you actually GAF about the company when all you want to do is just get a job and start working, screw all this people-interaction stuff.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 21 points 6 days ago

For me, getting the interview is the hard part.

I've never interviewed for a job where I didn't get the offer. I can't say exactly what works for me, but I can explain my process a bit.

First off, I go in confident. a lot of that probably had to do with my history with interviews, but that's the first part.

Secondly, I look at it as me interviewing the company. I want to know the company is right for me. To that end, I ask a lot of questions about the position and the team. I ask if they're looking to fill a hole or are willing to have the role reinvented.

Obviously, that last bit is for taking a unique role in the comment, not just as cashier number 23.

I am also clear that I'm not looking to remain in that position forever. I want to work at it a few years and move on, wither within the company or elsewhere. I won't bail in 6 months, but I also won't do the same job with no evolution for 10 years. My career needs to grow.

Essentially, I try to interview in a manner where they're trying to win me over instead of weed me out.

I'm my current job, I was relaxed, got the interviewers talking family and casually about the projects, started giving feedback on issues as if I was already on board, and essentially changed it from an interview to a group meeting.

It turns out I was asking for about 30% more than my competition, but they gave it to me anyway, and it all came down to making myself feel like a member of the team they wanted to hold onto rather than just someone looking for a paycheck.

And I'm absolutely there for the paycheck. I liked my old job a lot more, but I got like a 60% pay bump going to the new job.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 11 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Years ago when I was applying for my first job I actually had to pretend that it always been my dream to work as a shelf stacker. It was such a weird game because everyone involved knows that it's a total lie, they know your just telling them what they want to hear, you know that they know that you're just telling them what they want to hear, they know that you know that they know you're just telling them what they want to hear. But it doesn't matter, you still have to go through the charade.

If you tell him the truth, that you'll disappear as soon as you find someone prepared to pay you more than minimum wage, they won't hire you. Despite the fact that everyone involved knows that that is the case, regardless of how honest you are about it.

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[–] frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe 22 points 6 days ago (7 children)

I don't understand why op thinks they are special for going through this workflow. Women are way less likely than men to ignore job requirements when applying for jobs and many many people have to be reminded that job requirements are fluffy. Are all these people "neurodivergent"? We seem to want to apply this term everywhere for some reason.

[–] CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world 19 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I think most people are like this but neurodivergent people have trouble coming to terms with breaking the rules. As in they see an incongruity between the stated rule and the way everyone behaves. What OP is talking about is textbook neurodivergence behavior though I’m sure other people experience this to some degree.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

As a neurodivergent, this. Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself. I literally cannot because I'd quickly ramble on and talk about seemingly unimportant things for like, three sentences, but only use commas, so that it looks/reads as a single sentence, then ultimately say what you said, but I would say it worse somehow.

I'm ADHD. AMA?

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[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 9 points 5 days ago

I don't think that op thinks they're special by going through the workflow. I think op thinks that the workflow lands differently on them because of their condition. I think op thinks that it's related to their condition because no one else seems to be complaining about this and so maybe neurotypicals aren't as bothered by this.

[–] NiHaDuncan@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago

Yeah, this is an oddly common sentiment amongst those that make neurodivergence their personality; which is funny because it’s more common to be neurodivergent than neurotypical. While it’s usually said that 20% of people are neurodivergent, it’s actually more than 50% when you include everything that constitutes neurodivergence and even account for significant overlap.

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[–] Hazzard@lemm.ee 21 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

It's not lying as much as it's advertising. If they're asking about your greatest weakness, tell them. Just don't neglect to mention how you mitigate that weakness too, and are improving. Don't let your answer end on "I'm a disorganized mess", end it on "so in the last year, I've started building and using checklists and it's been really effective".

In the same way, be up front if they ask about the criteria you don't meet. But consider your entire answer, again, you can say something like "I actually haven't worked in that language before, but I've done lots of work in Python and Java, so I'm confident I can pick it up quickly as needed". If they don't ask, then it probably wasn't really that important of a criteria to them, so you shouldn't waste your interview time talking about it either.

Don't volunteer all your worst traits, you only have an hour, so focus on describing your strengths as often as you can. Nobody expects to completely understand you as a person in one hour, they're specifically asking you to come in and advertise yourself. Instead, read between the lines in the listing (I.E. Things mentioned in the job description or title are likely more important than something in a single bullet point. Look for repetition, or how much they talk about each requirement.). Figure out what the "customer" wants that you're good at, and ensure you emphasize it, repeatedly. Define clear takeaways and make sure they know what you're offering, and will actually remember it too.

And practice your answers to many questions. Come up with your best anecdotes for "a time you resolved a conflict with a coworker" and all that nonsense in advance, so that you can confidently segue into those stories that best emphasize your takeaways when asked. Do some research on the company to come up with a good answer to questions like "why do you want to work here?". The answer doesn't have to be your top priority, which is obviously "a paycheque", but just append an unsaid "instead of somewhere else" and answer honestly, because people are good at detecting insincerity. You likely haven't applied to every company on earth, so tell them why you chose them.

Lastly, like an advertiser, don't be afraid to segue from other questions into your prepared answers. "Yeah, I've always loved X, that's why I wanted to work here actually, I'd heard a bit about how you were getting involved with X, but with this interesting twist, and thought that sounded like something I'd really enjoy working on". The interview questions are designed to get you talking about yourself, it's not a survey where the strict questions are all that matter, and you can simply joke about it if the question comes up later.

[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 5 points 5 days ago

A lot of this is tied into rhetoric. Rhetoric is a skill. You don't need to lie. You need to tell the truth good.

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[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I have a stable job that I like.

Sometimes I think I should go to interviews just to make recruiters feel insecure, "your business is not up to my expectations" "what do you mean you don't provide flexible remote working?" "Your paycheck is just too small for me, sorry".

I would get a laugh of of it and probably would help some fella by lowering this fuckers ego.

[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 14 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I do this all the time. Keeps my interview skills sharp. Plus you never know when somewhere will wind up making you an insane offer.

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[–] kshade@lemmy.world 35 points 6 days ago

That whole routine doesn't magically make sense to neurotypical people either.

[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

As an autistic person I relate to this so hard it isn't funny.

[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 18 points 6 days ago

As a non-autistic person, it's also incredibly annoying. Job hunting has always been a really stupid system with lots of really stupid rules of thumbs.

[–] SeanBrently@lemm.ee 27 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I think of myself as a neutodivergent person but I am annoyed by neurodivergent people who act like everything is binary yes/no black/white full volume/absolute silence. Like, everyone in the world knows that the gas pedal in the car is not an on/off switch and believe it or not but other things in life are like that.

[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 11 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Black and white thinking is pretty common in ASD though isn't it?

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[–] ChildeHarold@lemm.ee 10 points 5 days ago

I took a job as a medical assistant. I was not certified. It was during COVID, and the manager was woefully understaffed. I had zero experience or training. They still hired me, because in her words "we can teach you everything you need to know, and your resume demonstrated you were a good learner so that's all that matters." (I had taught myself Chinese and coding, and put that on the resume).

I worked my butt off, and after two years when I had to leave to go back to school they offered me a massive raise, more training to get me a promotion as an actual technician to start making 80k/year, and they even said when I finished grad school I could be taken on as a partner and own the business (it was a small clinic). They wanted to do anything to get me to stay.

All these companies these days care too much about certs. They don't know how to hire. They should look for resume's that demonstrate learning, initiative, responsibility, and commitment. Because at the end of the day: almost anyone can learn any job that isn't a PhD-level.

Like, having managers be required to have a college degree is moronic.

[–] Trashcan@lemmy.world 15 points 6 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

A lot og questions can be answered diplomatically and show that you are able to handle yourself:

Q: do you like the colour red?

A1: I hate red

A2: I don't like red

A3: Not my favourite colour

A4: I prefer blue

In this entirely made up and pointless exercise you hate red and are asked if you like it. Real world applications converging on zero.

On a scale of lie to truth, where are you comfortable with representing your thoughts of red in an interview?

And remember, only Sith deals in absolutes🙃

*Edited layout

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[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 20 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Even if you don't qualify, job hunting is just throwing your resume to the wall and see what sticks. You got nothing to lose by applying.

[–] AeonFelis@lemmy.world 26 points 6 days ago (2 children)

You got nothing to lose by applying.

Nothing to lose but your sanity.

[–] shneancy@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago (1 children)

and self esteem when a CV scanning AI sends you an automated rejection e-mail how you're not qualified to work a job that specifically has "no qualifications or experience needed!" written in the listing

logic knows it's bullshit, but man, it still stings to read

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[–] Venator@lemmy.nz 12 points 6 days ago (4 children)

It's because they're actually lying about the criteria, its more like a wish list than actual requirements. In the interview just say oh I only know a little about criteria x but I'm keen to learn or whatever

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[–] PieMePlenty@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

I dont know why they do it and I dont care to find out. I just know I apply even if I dont match the complete criteria. If I tick off 60-70% of what they want, I'll apply. We are people, not machines. If something doesnt match but is close to it, we try and make it work. This is how the real world works. There are multiple factors at play and they can work in your favour.

I got my first job which required a college degree and some experience. I had personal (non-professional) experience and no degree. Showed an interest in the work they did, told them I work on my own things from time to time and got hired. What probably worked in my favor was a lack of other applicants showing the same degree of interest. I even told them I'd graduate in a year and we made it a requirement. Never got my degree and worked there for 7 years. No lying, some luck and showing an interest. Same strategy worked two more times (out of two), 1st interview and "wanna come work for us?". Its easier the second time since experience is built up already. And im not some extroverted silver tongued devil or anything. The right interviewer at the right time.

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I don't consider myself neurodivergent but I do consider this issue one of the greatest barriers with my finding employment. I was raised to despise lying, and enough bad experiences have made me consider 'massaging the truth' to be the exact same thing.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

A job I applied to a year ago made me do a general logic test. It's the only job that's ever made me do one. I think I spent like half the time on one question because I was so confused. I genuinely believe there was a typo. Anyways, it's the closest I've come to putting my foot down and asking for accomodations because holy shit.

So, I ace the part relevant to my job but failed that part bad. Get this: they say they want me to retake it before giving the results to the potential client. HUH? If the test is bullshit, why make me do it at all? AND GET THIS. I retake it. I've now wasted three hours of my 2023 holiday season on this. The client rejects me because I didn't have experience with some random technology. WTF??? I think I even asked before all this why don't they show my resume to the client before the test and they said because they like to give a full file. I was so angry. It's probably the most unprofessional email I've sent, but I literally sent one saying something like "Then why didn't you show them my resume before making me waste three hours???" Seriously. They didn't even talk to me. Which is fine, I'm not saying they should have to, but for the contracting company to make me waste so much time... And to make me retake it (proving the whole thing is BS). Wow.

Anyways, I'm employed now, thank goodness.

My boss's boss said everyone should be happy on Friday because it's bonus day. I'm my boss's only contracted employee. I think I don't get one. I'm very tempted to just send him an email like "was I supposed to see a bonus in my paycheck? Blah mentioned it." But I don't wanna seem passive aggressive.

[–] Shou@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Neurotypical people are more "morally flexible." Which sounds like hypocricy and corruption to me. Assume NT's have ultirior motives and it becomes a easier to read between the lines.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 6 points 6 days ago

Hypocrisy and corruption are easy to breed from that, true. But the NT is also get a nice set of useful tools from it as well, like choosing their battles, and not painting people into corners.

How those tools are used are basically down to core morality and how you want to apply it to your subordinates, co-workers, and management.

I suspect I'm not fully ante and a lot of those lessons were difficult to figure out.

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[–] dsilverz@thelemmy.club 10 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Ah, the beautiful awful hidden rules of human society...

You see, birds can fly thousands of miles/kilometers across entire continents, surviving through stuff that Mother Nature makes available. No need for bureaucracies, no need for Walmart, no need for "money", no need for "being useful to aviary society", just following the natural and evolutionary flows.

However, for some reason, humans can't do the same, humans need to try and detach themselves from Nature. Yet we can point out exactly what's the reason: the curse of sentience. Once upon a time, Dubito ergo cogito, cogito ergo sum, and humans became their own predators (Homo homini lupus est), yearning for something bigger to save them from themselves... (perhaps some "Leviathan"?)

Suddenly, they conceptualize the "free will", yet they realize that existing, being a being, implies no free will at all. Existential and societal compliance (Derren Brown has good documentaries about the latter), being tangled by an invisible spider web of lies and rules. And because they're alive, they become culprits as if existence was some kind of circle of hell to be faced by those who "dared to exist": "you're alive, so comply with your societal duties!".

So is my body hungry against my will, or it's raining over my body? I need food and shelter. Oh, but there's the catch: I'm supposed to "buy/rent" them, because "there's no such thing as a free lunch". Buying and renting imply money, which implies the need something for its exchange... Some people ("the top 1% of the top 1%, the guys that play God without permission") have golden cradles, oh, shame on me I hadn't one, so I'm supposed to do the alternative thing: dedicate myself to a company's brand, doing my efforts to make the company functional.

But there's another catch: I can't simply "be part of a company", I need to be "hired", but I need to "be qualified" to be hired. Oh, I'm not "qualified" enough in the eyes of their HR? I'm not going to be hired. Am I qualified? I'll going to talk with a "recruiter", which will ask me rhetorical questions ("So why do you want to work for this company?", but I can't answer "to not starve" or "to afford a rent") which I'm supposed to reply in a "proper" way (i.e. pretending, but without being so evident that I'm pretending). I couldn't pretend enough? I'm not hired.

No company is required to hire me, for they're "private properties", so I need to seek another company where I'd "qualify". So I'm supposed to "distribute" my "curriculum vitae" across several job vacancies, waiting which one will "stick first" (as per someone's reply here, in this very thread). Oh, but there's another catch: job vacancy services are only good enough if I paid for them, I'm supposed to pay them in order to my curriculum to really be known to some HR... you know, so I could be "hired" and "work" and exchange my efforts with "money" so I can pay things, such as... job vacancy services. In a nutshell, I need to pay for a service so I can pay for other services. Hey, look, there flies another bird across the skies, unaware of our societal compliance complexities. They came from another country yet they have no visa nor passport! Hey, look, they're eating "freely", how audacious of them!

Apologies for my digression. The obvious shall be told about the society, and neurodivergents (I guess I'm one?) are the ones who can see those obviousnesses and write them as detailed as they can be.

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