this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2024

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338

If billionaires and CEOs feel like they need to start paying for large security details, would that be an example of trickle down economics? (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 week ago by ccunning@lemmy.world to c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world

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[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 90 points 1 week ago (4 children)

No. Trickle-down economics is the theory that deregulation and business-friendly laws result in more successful businesses who can pay their employees better. What it forgets is on one side, who are paying for those businesses to get successful, and that businesses in general are interested in low wages above all.

This would be "job creation" at best, with the G4S shareholders getting most of the spend, the actual security guards are underpaid peons like us.

However, it would at least show and remind the leeches every day that they have something to fear.

Also, security details can be great at their job, but a lot of it is theatre, and even a determined lone assailant can get very far. And they only have to win once, the security detail has to win every day.

Trump was almost killed despite the USSS, JFK was also shot way back when. Is G4S better than the USSS?

[–] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Granted, I've never done security for a billionaire CEO, but I worked security (including personal security) for well over a decade. And I can tell you without a doubt there is no security in security. Nothing we do matters, it's all entirely for show. Now, at that high level CEO security detail type it may be different, but a security job is basically "be the one who call the popo," and no one I knew in security, save one jackass, ever considered the job worth a damn to do anything over.

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

save one jackass, ever considered the job worth a damn to do anything over.

I feel like there's a Dwight Shrute in every type of job under the sun.

[–] dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Hang on, recently told the story and I'll link it.

Edit, well, I was gonna, but apparently Lemmy only saves my comment history back a few days?

[–] Aux@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

The problem with any deregulation theory is that deregulation does not exist. Especially in a country like US.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In the US, unions are very strictly regulated, but aeroplane manufacturers are pretty much completely unregulated.

We see the results.

Or what exactly do you mean?

[–] Aux@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's a great point! Let's discuss it!

You see, regulations can be split into two categories: consumer protection and business protection.

Consumer protection policies and regulations protect consumers from business malpractice. For example, here in Europe we have 1-2 years (depending on the country) of warranty for every product sold enshrined in the law. And that's something unheard of in the US, because communism or something.

On the other hand, business protection regulations protect existing businesses against competition. A good example is software patents: so common in the US, non existent in Europe.

Somehow when lobbyists are brainwashing American public to get more regulations, they're talking about business protection and when they want to deregulate something they're talking about removing consumer protections and American public makes the wrong choice every time.

Speaking of planes you can see this in Europe again: no competition regulations for air lines, yet strong consumer protections resulting in loads of air lines popping up all the time.

[–] obre@lemmy.world 7 points 1 week ago

Worker protection regulations, as enforced by OSHA in the US, are also a target for deregulation by the right.

[–] PanArab@lemm.ee 4 points 1 week ago

Look up “regulatory capture”

[–] PlexSheep@infosec.pub 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well they can pay their employees better. They just don't want to

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

So here's a bit of Marx for you, no, they literally can't.

Unregulated capitalism floats the most unscrupulous, must exploitative companies to the top, because if they stop being the arch-enemies of humanity, they will get outcompeted. Those at the top are just as much slaves to the system as those below, except most of them like it that way.

The only way they could really help is if they lobbied for getting money out of politics, or better workers' laws. But they won't because of the above point.

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[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

To be fair, trump was a candidate / former president at the time, not the sitting president nor president-elect. The USSS probably just let their guard down and didn't expect anyone to try anything.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 week ago

Who expected a multimillionaire to be targeted before very public figures like Musk? And will private security take their job more seriously than the USSS?

If they only kill the billionaires whose security lets their guard down because "no way it's happening to us", that still makes for a steady stream of blood.

[–] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 49 points 1 week ago (2 children)

No, this is effectively the Broken Window Fallacy - a debunked theory where it proposed that breaking windows (or similar) stimulates the economy because it would cause people to buy new windows and pay for the installation. But it doesn't work like that. It's just a drain on the local economy.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Not to be confused with Broken Window Theory, which posits that the presence of broken windows, graffiti, and other forms of vandalism creates lawlessness because people see that the laws aren't enforced. The idea is that greater criminality is encouraged through the lack of action on minor criminal acts.

We need someone to Broken Window geometric postulate.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

The broken window theory certainly applies to the wealthy.

[–] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

For clarity, would you mind outlining exactly how what OP proposed is an example of the Broken Window Fallacy?

[–] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Instead of broken windows needing replacement, we have broken CEOs needing protection. Causing destruction as a way to "spur the economy" isn't really a productive thing.

[–] jacksilver@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The only caveat would be is if they were going to hoard that money anyways it might not make it into anyones hands.

"Trickle" would definitely be the key word though.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

That is the rub with it. It assumes full employment. Capitalism produces a surplus, and because of it, people just plain don't have to work very much to get all the basic needs met. Keynesianism was the liberal attempt at fixing this, basically by throwing their hands up and looking for ways to dig ditches to have them filled back in again. The leftist solution is to reduce working hours so you can focus on things that aren't work, or just letting people not work altogether.

Keynesianism is the only thing that's kept Capitalism going this long. The right is trying their hardest to dismantle it.

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[–] marcos@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago (7 children)

If you are asking this seriously, trickle-down economics is an absurd nonsense theory, there are no examples of it.

Also, money changing hands is not what creates wealth, and those security details would be just an artificially maintained middle-class that can never be large.

[–] w3dd1e@lemm.ee 6 points 1 week ago

Trickle down economy is a thing….but only in costs, not in profits.

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[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 1 week ago

I see it more as the absurdity of capitalism.

We have people starving on the streets, people unable to afford healthcare, yet the jobs the self-proclaimed “efficiency” of capitalism creates, is labour intended to protect the people who caused these problems in the first place, not labour intended to help the people who face these problems.

[–] pdxfed@lemmy.world 24 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Up voted for the dark humor but sincerely it's Feudalism. A central state nor laws cannot be relied on for order nor process so those with the means purchase or are anointed with safety and power.

[–] edgemaster72@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

"If kings and nobles feel like they need to start paying for large retinues of soldiers, would that be an example of trickle down economics?"

[–] Bougie_Birdie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 1 week ago

They'll pay you peanuts to protect their gold. The only gold trickling down is a shower

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago (5 children)

No because 1) that thing doesn't exist and 2) nothing of value is created out of it.

It's like paying one team to dig holes during the day, and another to fill them up during the night.

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[–] 9point6@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Rich people spending some money is not trickle-down economics.

Trickle down economics is the lie that centralising capital in the hands of the few benefits everyone due to their increased ability to invest their capital.

What happens is they spend a small amount of their fortune in self-serving pursuits (e.g. their security in this scenario) and then they hoard the vast majority of what's left. The incentive structure of capitalism means a capitalist benefits more from holding capital than distributing it.

The system is broken by design and cannot be fixed without replacing it

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Trickle down is more lying by omission. Wealth trickles down, but at the same time flows up through various means so it's a net negative for the poor, thus concentrating wealth on the hands of the few.

[–] leaky_shower_thought@feddit.nl 17 points 1 week ago

i don't think it counts as such when the money didn't go down but sideways.

[–] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 15 points 1 week ago (3 children)

There is no such thing as trickle down economics. The key part of that false hood is the trick part.

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[–] PanArab@lemm.ee 13 points 1 week ago

Just like a piñata, you have to hit it for the candies to fall down

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 week ago

Yes!!! Usually its police departments protecting them, but being a henchman is Bernie's job guarantee program.

OTOH, if everyone in America is working security or mass deportation/incarceration, then there are fewer people available to make stuff.

[–] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

No. Trickle down economics refers to things that benefit the wealthy (mostly government policies, particularly related to taxes and subsidies) that will allegedly benefit everyone by “trickling down.” Supply-side economics are an example of trickle-down economics. Trickle-down economic policies have been shown to effectively increase income inequality and studies suggest a link between them and reduced overall growth.

Giving the wealthy tax breaks in the hopes that they’ll spend the extra money they have available on security details, on the other hand, would be an example of trickle down economics.

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[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What needs to be remembered is both police officers and security details get just as fucked by medical insurance and other corps same as other. Same run arounds we all do. Anyway that is a bit of a non sequitor from me.

[–] Drusas@fedia.io 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

And yet, despite being the ones with the power (compared to the rest of us), they still lick the boot.

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

never know. may not try as hard as necessary on this one.

[–] Drusas@fedia.io 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I read earlier that there are more than 200 detectives working on this.

Whether one sympathizes with this particular crime aside, that is insane. They are openly showing the population that they give hundreds of times the resources to crimes against the wealthy than they do to those against your average everyday individual. And somehow nobody's focusing on that. How is it okay that you get more than 200 detectives looking for the murderer of some random CEO, while the murder of some random retail worker or office worker would get maybe two detectives with a full case load?

They're not even pretending to not be corrupt.

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 3 points 1 week ago

yeah I was thinking about how many murders happened in new york since this one and a week before. I hope they are working as hard as those chicago cops hanging in the aldermans office.

[–] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They're going to outsource that to AI-robots soon. And then I hope they malfunction.

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

Oh that would be a neat challenge.

AI security guards (which I can only imagine look like Daleks from Dr Who) vs the public. How long before they just outright massacre a crowd?

Or, better yet, what happens when people start using drones as flying pipe bombs and the robots can't even aim at it.

Ooooh or better yet, we can create devices that create a distraction for the AI robots.

Or, since I am pretty sure they'd be using some wireless connection of some sort, bring a signal jammer and just push em over.

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

Maybe, but not much of one. Honestly anyone supporting or protecting them is almost as bad as being them. Some technical terms would be sheltering, aiding, and abetting.

[–] bokherif@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

We won't see trickle down economics unless rich people trickle down piss down their trousers out of fear.

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