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Even if every single one of the bullet ballots were invalidated, trump would still win.
Do we really need to chase after ghosts rather than look at the terrible campaign Harris ran? She ran Hillary’s campaign again, took the left for granted and made stupid campaign stops in Kentucky and Texas rather than focusing on more important matters.
Harris lost the election running a center right campaign.
However, Snopes' research, in which we compared the vote tallies cited by Spoonamore with the latest official election results, found his figures to be incorrect and his assertions to make no mathematical sense.
Sure, investigate. But what though? You need evidence of something before even alleging a crime.
I'd say the number of bullet ballots is evidence that something is almost certainly up that needs investigating. That's not a normal occurrence
So the assertion is that Republicans inserted a bunch of fake votes but only for president? Why would they not just make it down ballot?
Ostensibly because the presidential election is the one that they really cared about this time around.
Things can be anomalous and abnormal and not be nefarious. Abnormality isn't evidence of criminality. So, why investigate? Because the number of bullet ballots is slightly higher? A more reasonable explanation is that some people cared more about president than other down ballot elections.
Any anomaly on this scale is worth investigation. Regardless who the current outcome or an overturned outcome favors.
Why do you assume it's not nefarious? This is literally Trump and the GOP we're talking about, did him trying to bribe governors for votes make you trust him more or something?
A more reasonable explanation is that some people cared more about president than other down ballot elections.
Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." There are a lot of stupid people in the United States who would vote for Trump. His campaign was directed at turning out low-propensity, low-information voters, and the type of voter who would cast a bullet ballot are low-propensity, low-information voters.
Why do you assume it’s not nefarious?
The past two elections are regarded as two of the most secure in history. Plus, if there were actual malfeasance, I very much doubt that Trump, knowing his famously insatiable ego, would not allow his popular vote to get below 50%.
In the end, investigate away, but nothing will be uncovered, just like in 2020.
The key flaw in this idea that fake bullet ballots put Trump over the top ignores the fact that Republicans won House and Senate seats as well.
If it were bullet ballots, we would have seen split tickets where Trump won but Dems won House and Senate seats at that did NOT happen.
So, no, this is all specious reasoning from the start.
Look at the Abortion bill in Arizona:
https://ballotpedia.org/Arizona_Proposition_139,_Right_to_Abortion_Initiative_(2024)
Yes - 2,000,287 - 61.61%
No - 1,246,202 - 38.39%
3,246,529 votes cast.
Now look at President:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election_in_Arizona
Republican - Donald Trump - 1,770,242 - 52.2%
Democratic - Kamala Harris - 1,582,860 - 46.7%
Green - Jill Stein - 18,319 - 0.5%
Libertarian - Chase Oliver - 17,898 - 0.5%
3,389,319 votes cast.
There were 142,790 more votes cast for President than in the abortion race, but Trump beat Harris by 187,382 votes.
Even if all 142K overvotes cast in the Presidential race were fake bullet ballots, Trump STILL would have won by 44,592 votes.
What seems more likely, 1) A vast conspiracy involving the Trump campaign, a group of hackers, Elon Musk and various employees at his super PAC, along with countless other shadowy actors in a cabal that supposedly hacked the vote—an elaborate plot divined by one guy who has gotten nearly every data point verifiably wrong and has provided zero evidence for his related claims, yet somehow “got it right.” Or, 2) A small number of Trump voters simply didn’t care or know much about other offices or candidates and just voted for Trump and left the rest blank?
Right.
It’s genuinely sad to watch people grasp at conspiracy theories like this. Conspiratorial thinking is strongly correlated with feelings of insecurity, low agreeability, narcissism, intolerance of uncertainty, a lack of control, fear, and tendencies toward confirmation bias and proportionality bias. So while it’s not entirely surprising to see some on the left indulging in this kind of thinking—just as Trump supporters did and do—it’s still disappointing to witness.
Within every election, there is a certain number of bullet ballots to be expected. The norm falls around 1-2% or so, with an expected margin of error. ~~Every swing state (and ONLY swing states). Hit around 5-12%.~~ The percent of bullet ballots has drastically gone down. I think the percent was so hi due to early counts in the week after the election.
There were 57 bomb threats that targeted ballot counting stations. All in swing states.
In pretty much every swing states, Trump won the Presidency, but Democrats won pretty much every other down ballot race?
The polls were pretty much correct for the swing states..... except for the Presidency?
There's coincidences and then there's fucking Looney Toons levels of improbability.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but considering all that, you don't think a single investigation should occur?
There weren’t that many bullet ballots, did you not read the source?
The Trump campaign was heavily courting low-propensity, low-information voters. The bulk of spending was in swing states. People who are more likely to cast bullet ballots are low-propensity, low-information, and/or single-issue voters. All I'm getting from your argument is that the Trump campaign was effective in their strategy.
So, go ahead and investigate, but the result will almost certainly be that the election was secure.
The sad truth is that there are many disengaged, low-information voters who were swayed to vote for Trump.
Right, you’re not a conspiracy theorist—you’re just “asking questions” and urging people to “do their own research.” Where have we heard that before? While you throw around baseless accusations about the Harris-Trump election, the reality is this: there’s no credible evidence to support claims of widespread fraud. Swing states have robust systems for verifying results, and the election process is overseen by bipartisan officials, including both Democrats and Republicans who vouched for its integrity. Demanding "just one investigation" isn’t about seeking the truth; it’s about refusing to accept the outcome.
I know you you're unlikely to read let alone comprehend this post—just like you didn’t read the article you’re twisting—but for anyone else stumbling across your nonsense, this is the reality: your claims are bullshit. They're not just wrong, they’re embarrassingly, demonstrably wrong based on the very data provided for you in the article to which you are responding. Let’s go through the numbers you’ve clearly ignored.
You say there were “5-12% bullet ballots” in swing states, but the data in no way supports that claim. Take North Carolina: out of 5,722,556 ballots cast, 5,592,243 included votes in the governor’s race. That means just 130,313 ballots didn’t—a mere 2.3%, not your laughable “5-12%.” Arizona? Of 3.4 million ballots cast, only 81,673 didn’t include votes for the Senate race—about 2.4%, again miles below your inflated, made-up conspiracy numbers. Nevada? The difference was 23,159 ballots out of nearly 1.5 million—a negligible 1.6%. Interesting. On average that's... basically right where you said it should "normally" be.
Bullet ballots in battleground states are rare, but they’ve always existed, especially in contentious elections. And they've always been higher in battleground states. Swing-state voters tend to focus on the presidency when the stakes are high, which is common knowledge to anyone who understands voting behavior. Your numbers? They don’t exist.
As for your implication that it’s “improbable” for Trump to win the presidency while Democrats do better down-ballot, I hate to break it to you, but racism and sexism is a much simpler, proven explanation with data to support it. Polling had consistently shown that Harris faced deep resistance, even among Democrats, with much of it rooted in gender and racial bias. Voters who rejected Harris while supporting other Democrats weren’t casting "impossible" ballots—they were reflecting prejudices that have been documented for decades. You don’t need a vast conspiracy to explain why Kamala Harris lost; you need to look at exit polls and confront the ugly reality of American history and culture
The bomb threats on Election Day, which you seem desperate to weave into your narrative, were investigated by the FBI and found to largely be hoaxes originating from Russian email domains. These threats, while reprehensible, had no impact on the election's integrity and were not linked to any domestic conspiracy. The idea that they were part of a grand scheme to disrupt the “chain of custody” or facilitate hacking is pure fantasy, unsupported by a shred of evidence. If anything, they reflect an attempt to intimidate voters and officials, not to alter outcomes. Clinging to this as proof of fraud is the hallmark of conspiracy theorists: taking unrelated incidents and spinning them into a baseless, implausible story when reality doesn’t fit their worldview.
And this is exactly where your conspiratorial thinking falls apart. Rather than accept straightforward, evidence-backed explanations—strategic voting in swing states, voter sexism, or even the simple fact that Trump remains popular among many, indeed a majority of, voters in this country—you leap to shadowy plots and grand conspiracies. This is textbook conspiracy logic: inflate normal patterns into anomalies, ignore the data that contradicts you, and demand investigations into “questions” you’ve invented yourself. It’s bad-faith reasoning at its worst.
Your entire argument isn’t skepticism; it’s denial. You’re not interested in the facts—if you were, you’d see how consistently they dismantle your claims. This isn’t about election fraud. It’s about your refusal to reckon with reality.
She lost. Get over it.
Whew. I did, in fact, read it.
There was no need to be rude in your post about it.
Turns out the numbers are still being updated. They've gone up about since you posted (and funny enough, Trump no longer has above 50% of the vote - i.e. the mandate of the people). I'll admit that I was getting my information from Stephen Spoonamoore, and that the data does not match up with the current results. I went and pulled the numbers as well and it looks like it's even lower than what you found based on comparison to Senate data. However, I'm not a security specialist, nor am I a data analyst. I was deferring to people that have more experience than me.
That said, I'm not saying that it was rigged - I am however saying that a bunch of weird shit happened, and I'm hoping that someone looks into deeper JUST TO BE SURE. It looks like Pennsylvania is actually doing a recount - if they come back with nothing, I'll shut up about it. And yes, it's entirely skepticism, I'm not in denial about Trump winning.
I don't get why there's such a hesitation about being sure of something. It's like smelling smoke, and being told to stfu about there being a fire...that everything is working as intended. Like, do I have "evidence" of there being a fire? No, but....why tf wouldn't we just establish that nothing is on fire, just to be on the safe side.
I 100% agree that none of the things suggested are "evidence," but without some sort of investigation, no one will ever actually be able to get any evidence.
If you actually wind up responding, try not to strawman me this time as some sort of election denier, "do your own research" kook. I didn't do that to you, did I?
Yeah fair enough. I think I was responding in tone more to the OP and other desperate conspiracy theorists who are clinging to the hope, against all evidence, that the election was somehow stolen from the democrats. Given Republicans now will have majorities in the house, senate, state legislatures, supreme court, governorships, and will control the executive branch -- not to mention the anticipated purge of federal agencies and loyalist-stuffing -- I find it very important that democrats level with themselves instead of looking for excuses.
While it's true Trump lost an absolute majority, the republican candidate still beat the democratic candidate by about 2.5 million votes, with about 98.9% votes counted. And, as you noted, recounts in some counties and states are occurring, and the FBI has been, and as far as I know still is, investigating questions and concerns about the election being hacked since at least August.
That said, I take your point, and I'm sorry for being so derisive in the tone of my response. I appreciate your level-headed reply.
Didn't you know? If dems called out trump for stealing the election, they'd be no better than him 😇
/s yall need to get your heads out of your asses, the election was clearly stolen and pretending otherwise won't save you from trump or make you a superior person
Wow, impressive! You managed to showcase at least five of the psychological traits we discussed in record time. I also love how you accuse me of not reading the article, while cozying up to someone who actually didn’t read it and is throwing out numbers that flat-out contradict the data in the very article you shared. But hey, they’re feeding your paranoid conspiracy, so I guess that’s all that matters, right? If only there were a term for this kind of behavior—oh wait, there is: "confirmation bias."
Honestly, you really speedran those psychological traits. Bravo. 🤣
He lost. Get over it :3
Does it feel good putting this much effort into defending Donnie? Do you feel superior to everyone else bc you ignore obvious signs of election fraud and tampering? Or are you under the impression if you start kissing ass now he won't deport or kill you?
I’ve come to understand that you are open about grappling with a way of thinking that makes it hard to let go, take accountability, and engage with reality as it is. It seems that you’ve created a kind of mental framework—almost a dreamworld—where everyone and everything is aligned against you. This tendency to assign blame outwardly, to view others through the lens of imagined hostility or hidden agendas, mirrors the patterns we often see in conspiratorial thinking. I can only imagine how exhausting it must be to live with such constant anger and frustration, feeling perpetually under siege by the world around you. This way of thinking doesn’t just keep you trapped—it compounds your sense of helplessness, fostering isolation and perpetuating the very struggles you’re trying to escape.
What makes this even harder is how these feelings trap you in a vicious cycle. Anger and helplessness often lead to assigning blame or constructing theories that rationalize the world in negative ways. This mindset, in turn, fosters behaviors and patterns that reinforce those same feelings, perpetuating a feedback loop that’s hard to escape. The effects on your relationships must be profound. I can imagine how isolating and disheartening that must feel.
I hadn’t realized until now just how long this has been a part of your life, consuming so much of your energy. It’s clear that these challenges have been significant for you. With that said, I’m going to step back and block you. I imagine this won't be the first time this has happened to you, and I'm not talking about Lemmy. However, I do genuinely wish you well, and I hope that one day you can confront and overcome the struggles that have held you back. Breaking free from this cycle will require immense effort and readiness, but I believe it’s possible for you to wrestle with those demons.
When you’re ready, I suspect you’ll find you have more support around you than you might realize.
My demons are trump and assholes like you who endlessly defend him and his fascism. I hope I get to do some wrestling too :3
You didn't read the article did you? Or even the snopes "correction" of it? Pls do that before discounting it as fake, being wilfully ignorant about this does nobody any good
🙄
I don't believe there was fraud but I do believe statistical anomalies are worth a second look. Some people won't ever be convinced but I'm certain the various audits of 2020 that came up empty swayed at least a few people (on that topic, not Trump as a whole).
That doesn't mean anything, are we really doing this? Can we just accept Americans are idiots
Considering how much trump and his supporters tried to steal the election last time around, this almost certainly means something, and we'd be idiots to ignore it
Damn imagine if true, knowing that your US Government was illegally elected. This really should be investigated for the sake of the entire world.
Well, we saw it in 2000 so that's nothing new...
according to that planetcritical post I shared, it seems that the public still doesn't know the actual results of the 2000 election? Doesn't seem democratic to me.
It doesn't seem democratic because America is a corporate plutocracy masquerading as a democracy.
And fast.
Seems it's been investigated enough and no surprises, the numbers are off and allegations based on no evidence.
Remember when there was a bunch of idiots from the red camp, all bent on the idea Biden stole the election? Well, it's that and the blue camp has idiots too. This is something we'll have to get used to now, a bunch of idiots from X claiming Y stole the election.
Except for one MASSIVE difference, Harris isn't making the claims, calling for violence and to "stop the count"
Remember when they demanded a hand recount, got it, and then kept lying about the results even after they were verified?
That's the difference.
but it can't be that off the margin. from 1% to 7.2% in the case of Arizona, thats highly suspicious. Also the theory shared by those computer scientists is too damn convincing so those ballots should be hand counted, imho.
https://www.planetcritical.com/p/cyber-security-experts-warn-election-hacked
Also I will never understand why USA insist on using Computers for voting.
Or how a winner-takes-it-all approach is in any way fair or reasonable to the people.
The source you linked is referencing the claims that snopes is partially debunking
Their "theory" amounts to, "the Internet exists". They make no specific claim of a breach in election security and have no evidence of a breach. It's all purely, "somebody could have reprogrammed the machines at some unknown time and place."
They have no theory for how such a reprogramming would be distributed. Just fear mongering about how computers can be programmed to do anything.
All good points here, but the clarification that Snopes and everyone else is missing and not talking about are kind of important:
So really all that needs to be done is to find a large enough sample of size of consistent voters who had a flipped vote, find their forms, ensure nothing is fucky with the forms, then interview to confirm with the voter. Do that for a few thousand people in Wherever, USA and you'll have your answer.
It's not hard, it's just time consuming and costs money. Voters don't generally have a way to even check their vote was counted for all the candidates they chose in most states, which I think is fucked up, otherwise this might be a bit easier.
Ballots are anonymous, there isn't identifying information on the part put in a tabulator.
find a large enough sample of size of consistent voters who had a flipped vote
Is that possible in AZ? In my state the poll worker records that you appeared to vote, then gives you a generic ballot. The ballot is not tied to you. Your vote is completely secret with no way to trace it.
Some states it is not, as I mentioned.