this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
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409
Gov. Tim Walz vows to fight Donald Trump’s agenda while working to understand his appeal (apnews.com)
submitted 6 days ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 126 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (3 children)

I am fucking astounded that there is still a disconnect even with high level Democrats who can't seem to grasp that much of America is living in a completely alternate reality because of the right-wing propaganda machine, exacerbated by foreign adversaries like Russia.

Lichtman's (one saving grace from this election I never have to hear about this charlatan) keys prove this because he never accounts for the disconnect between what we see versus those in the echo-chamber perceive.

The megaphone of disinformation and sowing of distrust of traditional media, in my view, was the single biggest reason for our loss.

[–] dcpDarkMatter@kbin.earth 22 points 6 days ago

Lichtman's still 10 for 11 (considering that Gore did win FL, only to have the SC overturn the results), so I think he'll still be around for a while.

Agreed on the media silos though - the right-wing media ecosystem is almost wholly disconnected from reality and any other viewpoints.

[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

If that’s the terrain you have to fight on, there’s not much you can do about it.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 15 points 6 days ago (1 children)

There is, but the solution comes before the indoctrination. It's much easier to vaccinate and inoculate before being infected with the mental illness. After that, the best defense really is just a bullet. You can't operate a functional democracy when the majority of the population are demented and actively working to tear it apart.

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Well said. I hesitate to say I've studied this but it's been a subject of passion of mine for some time now, and I've written long write-ups on how to, as you say exactly, inoculate people from mis/disinformation. However, once people lose their anchor to reality, it is extremely hard to get them back.

Are there ways out of our predicament? Maybe. And that's a big maybe. Our moves have to be perfect from hereon out but even so... We may be beyond the point of no return and now the whole thing may have to come crashing down.

[–] Preflight_Tomato@lemm.ee 2 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Have you learned anything useful on inoculation and deprogramming? I’ve been looking as well but haven’t found much.

Is it like you say, have a true set of idea anchors? But still what if it’s a false anchor?

[–] lennybird@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

On a widespread scale, or say individually with someone you know?

Generally speaking, you need to treat it like a substance addiction. For these people, this alternate reality is an escapism; the reaction of anger to fear & disgust is actually a physical addiction; the neural pathways become entrenched and habituated to an extent that anything counter this quite literally takes more mental effort to trudge through — like going off the beaten path and into the jungle.

What this means is cutting off the source and putting them into rehab; in this case, rehab being you having their undivided attention for a couple weeks until you can break through. As you can see, the problem is that (1) You are competing with someone who has a cellphone in their hands 24/7 and you cannot compete with that, time-wise. (2) Even if you can convince this person to go out on a camping trip with you, it takes a certain tact and relationship to actually raise this without entirely burning the bridge and having them shut down.

People fall down this rabbit-hole most frequently due to self-loathing or trauma. It's why the likes of incels are such easy targets. Lonely, young men being told wrong advice get upset that said advice isn't working and they just get increasingly radicalized. It's just another example of Shock Doctrine as described by Naomi Klein. When people are broken down and at their most vulnerable, they are most susceptible to radical changes in personality.

It's another reason why men in their mid-life crisis also run through this. "It's the immigrant to blame for me being jobless; not me!"

My family across several generations shifted from being Republican to progressive Democrat. The circumstances for us was unique and I don't even know if we could've broken out in this day compared to 20-years-ago.

The other boring answer is good education, but that's a long-term investment that takes so long to yield results, and even that is being undermined at every turn. Healthy community; healthy idols can be anchors. They have for me, anyway.

You might be interested in the documentary, "The Brainwashing of My Dad." It ends on a somewhat positive note.

[–] Preflight_Tomato@lemm.ee 1 points 4 days ago

I'll check out the documentary, and thanks for your reply.

I agree, my working conclusion for a while has been that I can't compete with the phone and to focus on my wellbeing by reducing contact.

[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

The deprogramming things I've looked at require a person to be with the person being deprogrammed almost all the time. You have to be able to shut down their bullshit immediately, and that's if they already trust you. It's basically impossible for most of us to do because we have fucking jobs.

[–] makyo@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

Yeah billionaires with their finger on the media scale. We can't allow them to get away with this.

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 77 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

For those unfamiliar with Minnesotan language, that's what this vow is.

He will fight Project 2025 as state governor, which does give him powers the president can't just take. "While working to understand the appeal" means he acknowledges that Magats are idiots and will also work on a way to get through their thick skulls to also reject the Presidents agenda.

Minnesota nice is fun :)

Edit: another interpretation would be he said to Trump supporters: "Y'all need Jesus."

[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 16 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I'm kinda in love with Walz right now. Hopefully he'll be my governor soon™. Fuck Greg Abbott. Just hope I manage to get out before Texas fascists go full nuts.

[–] Lanthanae@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You could also come over to Illinois. It's shaping up to be a stronhold for the Trump resistance as well.

[–] DokPsy@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

I'm looking into learning Dutch and going to Denmark, tbh. Cruz winning, Abbott, Paxton, Patrick, and the rest being complete Trumpian ass-slurpers does not give me any hope for Texas going Blue

[–] Jumi@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I can barely see him from over the pond but he seems somewhat decent

[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 8 points 6 days ago (3 children)

If I'm not mistaken, his policies are a big reason why Minnesota is one of the big LGBT travel destinations right now. I think he was the governor who signed legal weed into law and supported really strong trans and LGBT healthcare bills that do things like force health insurance to cover gender-affirming care.

[–] _bcron@midwest.social 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

About weed, funniest shit, republicans didn't understand the language in a bill pushing for hemp-derived edibles and decided to push it through lol https://www.npr.org/2022/07/02/1109576113/minnesota-thc-edibles-accident-delta-8

I think that's a different bill than our smokeable marijuana bill but you gotta appreciate the irony

After an amendment passed unanimously during a Minnesota legislative session in May, state Sen. Abeler jokingly said: "That doesn't legalize marijuana — we just didn't do that, did we?"

[–] bitchkat@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

And he did that all (and more) with a 1 seat majority in both houses of the state legislature. Unfortunately, it looks like thd house is going to be a tie so we're not likely to see any more big legislation for the next two years.

[–] Jumi@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

That does sound good

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 points 6 days ago

They all already have Jesus, that fat orange spawn of Satan. The is to he worshipped

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works -3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

And nothing was learned, yet again.

[–] tbird83ii@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

Not true. We learned that apparently being decent, caring, and empathetic won't win against racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, and hate.

[–] WashedOver@lemmy.ca 82 points 6 days ago (2 children)

[–] 0ops@lemm.ee 8 points 6 days ago

Jesus, when it's put that way... Holy fuck. We're not in a good place

[–] GladiusB@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Not the first time

[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 51 points 6 days ago (2 children)

His appeal? Anger is a more powerful motivator than fear.

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 26 points 6 days ago (3 children)

It's not just anger. The majority of voters take actual delight in harming others, even when the cost of doing so is harming themselves too.

Collectively, humans are evil to the core. That's the problem that Trump is a symptom of - even if he chokes to death on Putin's dick right now the problem isn't going to go away. Some other Nazi will fill in and the 73 million traitors that voted for Trump will just redirect their support to the next guy.

[–] TheFlopster@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago (2 children)

I think you're absolutely right about the hate vs. fear. But when the charismatic (Trump? Ew, how?) cult leader dies, sometimes the cult doesn't have anyone else they all believe in, and it breaks apart. I'm hoping for that.

[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Trump has proven that his style of campaign is effective. It’s now a solidified approach to the presidency.

This behavior will absolutely continue after Trump is gone.

[–] TheFlopster@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

I agree that the behavior will absolutely continue. But if the new leader doesn't have that special "something" that everyone rallies around, the cult divides.

Again, I still have no idea what people see in Trump or why anyone would choose to follow him. But there's obviously something about him that appeals to them. Visible anger and hate for everyone not in the cult? Promises to destroy them all? Idk.

[–] mister_flibble@lemm.ee 1 points 6 days ago

charismatic (Trump? Ew, how?)

I've been calling it carnival barker energy. It's not exactly charisma, it's stage presence comprised mostly of speed, energy, and volume. And it's fucking catnip to morons apparently.

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

So why can't all that hate be used back against the ignoramuses and wannabe fascists?

[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

I've been wondering that myself.

[–] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I think you’re right. It may be hate vs. fear.

[–] adarza@lemmy.ca 3 points 6 days ago

it's hate.

if people were scared or fearful, they would have kept the evil locked away in a sand trap in south florida.

[–] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 4 points 6 days ago

Trump has propaganda from republicans, billionaires and foreign actors helping him. Anger is just one of the tools used with propaganda.

[–] _sideffect@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Maybe next time have the Dems focus on the economy first and foremost, even if its lies, and they'll win

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 days ago

Lies won't work as well on people who have a world view anywhere close to reality. That's why good fascism isn't a thing.

[–] snowboardbum@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

Clearly anything can be the truth. Just yell loud, have a good propaganda arm, and a solid amount of cult members.

[–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago (2 children)

GDI Walz, it's ok to be out of touch and confused, but keep the fucking quiet part quiet. Figure it out and fix it, reboot the DNC to the left and give us something compelling. I voted, but more as a sense of duty than actual being hopeful for the future.

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

No it's how we state this shit in Minnesota. He knows they're dumb and hateful. What he's saying is that he's going to get them to reject it too.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 days ago

I think the candor will help build trust.

[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Well, he better do it quickly. I anticipate a round-up of dissidents in 2025.

[–] b34k@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago

I don’t expect that to come first. First they’ll go for the “illegals” which will likely be any brown people regardless of immigration status.

That will probably take them a couple years. But the outrage it causes will compel the “dissidents” to speak out and resist. At this point, they’ll really turn up the propaganda machine on them, demonizing them and making them easy targets. By the next election cycle (if we even have one by then), they’ll start round them up and it will all be over.

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

While Project 2025 suggested the use of the military as law enforcement in Democratic cities - in reality this can only work in Red States. The federation style of government gives power to the state in the form of the National Guard.

I believe there is some sort of power that enables Governors to draw up reserves too, and any federal military stationed in the State.

Sort of like the Fediverse - the instance admin ultimately decides what can and cannot be fed into their instance, and enforce their own moderation rules within it.