this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2024
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[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 222 points 4 weeks ago (6 children)

Two types of people reading this:

"Oh no! We should do everything we can to mitigate the damage."

and

"Fuck it, might as well keep doing what I'm doing."

And it's the latter that got us here in the first place.

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 58 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

“Fuck it, might as well keep doing what I’m doing.”

And that last group is going to be angry when they can't keep doing their stuff when insurance rates go insane so they can't buy houses or cars, or when food prices keep going up even faster than they are now.

[–] BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world 19 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

But but but... It's because immigrants. And trans somehow idk

[–] SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago

It's the modern version of sacrificing people in a volcano to appease the gods.

[–] Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee 29 points 4 weeks ago

It's the parable of office pizza: some people take 1 slice because there are many people to feed.

some people take 3 slices, because there are many people to feed.

[–] houstoneulers@lemmy.world 21 points 4 weeks ago

And industrialists!

[–] badbytes@lemmy.world 16 points 4 weeks ago

Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (5 children)

It doesn’t make any difference what got us here in the first place. What matters now is what options are the best from now moving forward.

These scientists seem to say that trying to reverse climate change isn’t the right path forward. I wonder why.

edit: I wonder what makes them think that reversing climate change won’t work.

Someone was so offended by their misreading of my comment that they went through and downvote-bombed every comment in my history.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 13 points 4 weeks ago

What they're saying is that trying to reverse climate change won't be enough. It doesn't mean it isn't the right path, just that it won't go far enough.

[–] blurg@lemmy.world 8 points 4 weeks ago

One of the greatest advantages of the totalitarian elites of the twenties and thirties was to turn any statement of fact into a question of motive. -- Hannah Arendt

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[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Two types of people reading this, the cannibals, and the cannibees

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[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 79 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Tipping point has tipped?

The one I remember scaring the hell out of everyone is the permafrost melt.

Thaw out enough permafrost and it releases enough greenhouse gasses to self perpetuate. No human interaction required.

https://www.space.com/methane-beneath-arctic-permafrost-climate-feedback-loop

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[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 52 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

Startups are developing a whole suite of technologies to try to help

Do not think that they are seriously trying to save the planet.

(If they had wanted that, they should have done it 30-40 years ago)

They just want to make money, like everybody else.

[–] kmaismith@lemm.ee 13 points 4 weeks ago

I mean, the whole “startups are doing x” is really code for “venture dollars have been made available for entrepreneurs to explore x”. Startups these days are chasing fields which have investment dollars, so this means the rich are starting to invest in the tech a little more earnestly

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[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 37 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

If the people won't rise up for the sake of their own children then the only solution is to out spend climate change. Capitalism won't save itself, it will monetize the downfall. So in a way these tech companies are doing exactly what their suppose to but not really what they should.

[–] varyingExpertise 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

People won't even rise up for their own sake. gestures in every general direction

[–] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Can't argue with that. At the end of the day we are another mammalian creature that runs around killing, fucking, and shitting then we die. The ecosystem of today dying is of no consequences to the dinosaur, the wooly mammoth, or what ever critter that roamed these same lands. I say build the buildings big enough and strong enough for the sentience of tomorrow to unearth them and wonder. Wonder hard enough and we are reborn.

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[–] MrAlternateTape@lemm.ee 36 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

The problem is people are only going to change their behaviour once the consequences hit them, and with global warming, the consequences won't really hit them until a long time later.

The second problem is the consequences are dramatic. And very hard if not impossible to turn around.

To really get people and companies to change their behaviour, we would need an immediate consequence to behaviour that is bad for the environment.

Bottom line is, some people try, some people don't give a shit, and in the end we will have to deal with it.

I hope governments are watching carefully, we will need to keep a lot of water away from us in the future, and we'll have to deal with the changing climate too.

[–] Zementid@feddit.nl 19 points 3 weeks ago

Governments will fail. Wherever unpopular "Green" Measures are implemented, the right-wing cockroaches appear, destroying any discourse.

The consequence will be a global war by stupid populists who think that is one solution (which it kind of is,... Dead people won't emit CO2)

[–] paddirn@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

We’ll have a big environmental 9/11 moment where a major American city becomes permanently uninhabitable and then there will alot of handwringing about “What could we have done!?” Then we’ll start getting lukewarm serious about it for maybe a few years, but by that point it’s way too late.

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well yeah, you can't just try, you need to actually do it.

Stupid title, grammatically at least.

[–] just_an_average_joe@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 3 weeks ago (15 children)

This is a by-product of modern society (maybe late stage capitalism). We need to be sold a "solution" to a problem. Reducing consumption is not something that can easily be sold hence these carbon capture, recycling plastic "solutions".

Unless someone can make money off of it, reducing emissions is going to be difficult.

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[–] chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de 31 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (2 children)
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[–] bstix@feddit.dk 21 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

This is clearly a "why not both" situation.

Emissions must be cut and new technologies for reversing existing damage must be developed. There's a whole bunch of different things that needs doing, because there is simply no single solution, but using one approach to argue against another is certainly not helping anyone.

[–] alphabethunter@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

There's a point made at the end of the article that most people seems to have missed entirely:

Existing facilities that can filter carbon dioxide out of the air only have the capacity to capture 0.01 million metric tons of CO2 globally today, costing companies like Microsoft as much as $600 per ton of CO2. That’s very little capacity with a very high price tag.

“We cannot squander carbon dioxide removal on offsetting emissions we have the ability to avoid,” study coauthor Gaurav Ganti, a research analyst at Climate Analytics, said in a press release. The priority needs to be preventing pollution now instead of cleaning it up later.

It's obviously a matter of "why not both?", and both the article and the scientists behind the report agree on it. However, a lot of people are betting their eggs on the idea that climate reversal technology will suddenly become a lot more effective and cheaper than it is right now. And sure, that may be the case, or not. For how many years have we heard of flying cars or self-driving autonomous vehicles and predicted that they were just around the corner, at most a few years away, but nada so far? Betting on the invention of a new technology that'll make a very expensive process today way cheaper is a VERY naive and bad approach.

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[–] Jackthelad@lemmy.world 15 points 4 weeks ago (9 children)

Do people seriously think we could "reverse" climate change?

That's not how the climate works.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 35 points 4 weeks ago (4 children)

Remember it used to be called global warming, because that's what's actually happening. But morons thought a cold winter day disproved global warming, so it was renamed climate change.
And yes we can reverse global warming, but obviously that won't recreate polar or mountain ice, or lower sea levels quickly, but we can get the temperature down to stop it first, which will also curb the increase in natural disasters, then the restoring of sea levels and ice will take at least decades and probably centuries.

[–] Jackthelad@lemmy.world 10 points 4 weeks ago (7 children)

My point is that slowing down the heating of the planet is doable (though you'd need the majority of the world contributing, which is highly unlikely to happen), but we can't reverse the damage that has already been done, which some people seem to think is possible.

We're not as powerful as we think we are.

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[–] qqq@lemmy.world 9 points 4 weeks ago

Hm I always remember hearing this:

In a confidential memo to the Republican party, Luntz is credited with advising the Bush administration that the phrase "global warming" should be abandoned in favour of "climate change", which he called a "less frightening" phrase than the former.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/may/27/americans-climate-change-global-warming-yale-report

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[–] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 34 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Not sure why you’re being downvoted. Glaciers formed over millennia. If they melt, they’re gone, even if we drop CO2 to pre-industrial levels. The Antarctic ice sheet is millions of years of snow that fell at the rate of a few inches a year and just didn’t melt. If significant portions of that fall off and melt, it’ll be millions of years more for the water it adds to the oceans to cycle back to the ice sheet again. The changes we have made will not be reversed automatically or in many cases at all.

[–] Jackthelad@lemmy.world 13 points 4 weeks ago

It's because I didn't go on a rant about capitalism.

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[–] Cryophilia@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

The only examples this article gives of irreversible damage:

  • homes destroyed by hurricanes: clearly and obviously reversible. Build new houses. Fin.

  • rising sea levels: reversible. Cool the climate, get more glaciers, lower sea levels. Obviously it's more of a "100 years from now" solution, but it's definitely a solution.

  • lives lost: yeah, that's a fair point.

[–] cows_are_underrated 25 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

And also irreversible is The decline of biodiversity. Once a species is extinct it won't come back.

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[–] GhiLA@sh.itjust.works 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

My headcanon past 2050 is basically nuclear wasteland. I try and stay optimistic in the moment, but the old faith in humanity gas-tank is running a little empty these days.

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[–] ivanafterall@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Then I guess you guys have no use for this climate change reversal machine I made. I knew it was a shit idea. I'm so stupid. I'm scrapping it now.

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[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

Most problems would simply not be a problem if we drastically reduce the human population. Which would not only avoid the issues caused by climate change but also would prevent further increases in pollution and CO2 emissions.

I don't know why the best solution is often the less talked about. Just stop having so many children. We don't have 70% infant mortality rate like we used to, there's no need to have 4 kids to preserve your legacy.

[–] 0x0@programming.dev 21 points 3 weeks ago (13 children)

if we drastically reduce the human population. Which would not only avoid the issues caused by climate change but also would prevent further increases in pollution and CO2 emissions.

Ignoring the genocide-apologist trend, the pandemic did wonders to reduce global warming.., perhaps start taxing more the companies that force back-to-office when they could clearly keep most of their work force at home?

[–] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

And, eliminate Euclidean zoning in the U.S., so that people can live near where they work, or work near where they live. (Not all of us can do it, or like working from home.)

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[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 18 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (9 children)

One difficulty with that is that the way we organize economies currently depends on having a working-age population that is large enough to support the non-working population. When you have far fewer workers than retired people you start having problems. I don't know what the answer to that is, but it's another instance of how any plan to seriously address climate change tends to require deep changes to how we run society. The current systems can't simply be tweaked to make the problem go away.

[–] daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 3 weeks ago

There is a lot of things wrong on how we organize the economy.

If we are going to change that we may as well change it good.

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[–] Jacob_Mandarin@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Yeah. Thanos should simply have made half of all living beings gay. Much less violent and this would probably also make future generations more likely to be gay too. So it‘ll probably have a much more longlasting effect than killing 50% once.

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