this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
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TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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Those who live small, mate small, die small. (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 month ago by TokenBoomer@lemmy.world to c/progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
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[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 38 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Great quote, but there is no proof that it's by Sophie Scholl or her brother Hans. Please stop the misattribution.

Also while I do see some truth in the criticism, I also think it's unfair. Sophie and Hans Scholl were truly heroes, but their impact was rather insignificant. What shall someone who wants to protect their family learn from their example? You speak up and you get killed and nothing changes.

Power for change does not come from the individual but from the masses. That's how Hitler got into power and that's how his regime ended (albeit by different masses in both instances).

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I got the meme from a friend, so I don’t know if it is a misattribution, but I agree with the sentiment. Masses are made of individuals. Rugged individualism, unless it’s to stop Nazis.

[–] pau_hana 1 points 1 month ago

Here is an article ( in German) that calls into question the attribution to Sophie Scholl. faktencheck page But regardless of the true source, I agree it is a powerful quote.

[–] amzd@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Power for change does not come from the individual but from the masses.

Bullshit defeatist attitude. You are the masses.

[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 1 month ago

There is nothing defeatist about being realistic. A group of individuals is not the masses, you need some sort of organization to effect meaningful change. I am not arguing for complacency. But you need a plan. And just saying everybody is to blame because they don't rise up is dumb. Some unorganized individuals fighting back is easily suppressed and nothing will change, we saw that in the Third Reich. If it were easy, we wouldn't be where we are right now.

[–] Cris_Color@lemmy.world 36 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I really struggle with this. I don't wanna fight, I can barely get out of bed in the morning, but if no one fights it only gets worse

Frodo: "I wish it need not have happened in my time

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us"

Also reminds me of:

there's laundry to do and a genocide to stop

there's laundry to do and a genocide to stop. I have to eat better and also avoid a plague. my rent went up $150. I'll need to pick up more shifts. Twenty people died in Rafah this morning and every major news outlet is stretching the limits of passive voice to suggest whole families may have leaped up through the air at missiles that otherwise had the right of way. I just got a notification that my student loan payments are starting up again and my phone isn't charged. My cousin got COVID for a fourth time and can no longer work or walk or even feed himself. The person across from me on the L train seems to fashion themself a punk rock revolutionary, but they're not wearing a face mask, and that's the kind of cognitive dissonance that makes me want to steal batteries. Fascists keep winning primaries for both parties, and I think I gained a few pounds. The CDC just announced there are no more speed limits on highways, and I think this Ativan is finally hitting. The NYPD farmer's market only sells bad apples, have you heard that one? Listen it's warm today, too warm for March. But I don't have time to think through the implications because there's laundry to do and a genocide to stop.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Thanks for this.

[–] Cris_Color@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You're very welcome, I'm glad it connected with you in some way

Have a good one, take care ❤️

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Reminds me of the intro to Patrick Bateman:

I live in the American Gardens building on West 81st Street, on the 11th floor.
My name is Patrick Bateman.
I'm 27 years old.

I believe in taking care of myself, in a balanced diet, in a rigorous exercise routine.
In the morning, if my face is a little puffy, I'll put on an icepack while doing my stomach crunches.
I can do a thousand now.
After I remove the icepack, I use a deep-pore cleanser lotion.
In the shower, I use a water-activated gel cleanser.
Then a honey-almond bodyscrub.
And on the face, an exfoliating gel-scrub.
Then I apply an herb mint facial masque,
which I leave on for ten minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine.
I always use an aftershave lotion with little or no alcohol,
because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older.
Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm, followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion.
There is an idea of a Patrick Bateman.
Some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me.
Only an entity-- something illusory.
And though I can hide my cold gaze...
and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours...
and maybe you can even sense our life styles are probably comparable,
I simply am not there.

[–] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 27 points 1 month ago (2 children)

It’s fucking hard. Bc I have to be willing to lay down my life, which is admittedly privileged, when I don’t see enough comrades willing to do the same. I’m hardwired for survival, not sacrifice.

[–] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

And I have people who depend on my continue existence.

[–] GroundedGator@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

This is the hard part for me. I would willingly lay down my own life, but I cannot ask those I love to risk their lives or comfort.

Though even typing that sentence, there does come a point when they would have neither and my action to defend what we believe in, may just preserve life and comfort for them.

I hope it doesn't come to having to make that choice and if the time arrives I will need to have that conversation. I don't want to watch them suffer knowing I could have done something and didn't.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Same. None of us can know what we would do when put into these conditions, especially if you have children.

[–] superkret 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

On the other hand, if the likes of Hitler would have lived small and died small, a lot of atrocities wouldn't have happened either.
I very much agree on standing up where you are for what's right.

But beware of people trying to change the world.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 19 points 1 month ago (3 children)

This really does come off as victim blaming.

The blame for the atrocities of Nazism is squarely on the Nazis, and their instigators and enablers, not average Joe who wants his kids to grow up with a father more than he wants to grab a rifle to shoot Hitler.

I'd say the blame is primarily shared between two groups, the people who create the conditions for Nazism to flourish, the victorious Triple Entente elites, or today's billionaires, and of course the opportunistic genocidal maniacs themselves, like Hitler, Trump, Netanyahu, who ride that wave into power and channel it into hate towards the weak.

Of course, the average Nazi is culpable too, but they are victims too. Both of those can be true.

[–] kautau@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yeah it's worth remembering that the US and soviet union really only fought the nazis because the axis powers attacked them. Had hitler just taken over europe and not moved east, had japan not attacked the US, it's very possible we'd be living in a very different world right now

[–] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

The quote is basically trying to say that if you just go along with the Nazis because you don't want to cause trouble, then you might as well be a Nazi too. It doesn't shift the blame away from Nazis, it just increases the scope of what is considered a Nazi.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

70 million people died, but the Nazis were victims?

On a broader scale, societal progress often hinges on individuals taking action to challenge norms, advocate for change, or address injustices. The failure to act in the face of societal challenges can contribute to the perpetuation of systemic issues. In this sense, the quote serves as a call to consciousness, urging individuals to recognize the impact of both their words and deeds, as well as the consequences of their silence and inaction.

Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Average Fritz was a victim, despite the fact that he might have been a perpetrator as well.

He fought through The War To End All Wars to come back to an economy where if he worked in a coffee shop he could not afford to drink the coffee he made, while French and British tourists were laughing at how cheap the prices were. And then the only party telling him that it wasn't his fault happened to be called the NSDAP. He didn't have much education, but what he had was indoctrination since his childhood that he was a loyal subject of the Kaiser, and thus joining the Communists would have been unthinkable.

Of course, that led him to be conscripted again, it led him to do unthinkable things... again, just as he did in the previous apocalyptic war. So of course he was the bad guy, and if people like him didn't do as people like him do, it would have been avoidable. But he has been victimized himself.

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This complacency to take individual responsibility is why it’s happening again.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 month ago

No, the critical mass of dispossessed uneducated people who see no other way of communicating that they can't see a future is why it's happening again.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

That quote if for all you liberals who won't shoot back.

[–] 11111one11111@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

Lol there is way more conservatives who aren't shooting back at their own party who can do more for change than any Democrat can. Can't tell you the amount of rednecks I know who have said something along the lines of "who you voting for?" "Trump. I know he's dumb as a brick but he isn't Biden/Harris/Clinton"

I've always said complacency is the death of any business but I'm adapting it to be complacency is the death of democracy.

[–] Machinist@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hey, shalafi! I always like seeing your comments. We've talked before.

Managed to get my family moved out of the deep South. We're in a purple state now. The MAGAts are going nuts around here. Like primates throwing shit but instead it's red white and blue campaign signs.

How's it going in your neck of the woods? The Qnuts come up with anything new lately? Seeing anything spooky?

Keep your head down and your powder dry, brother.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Mighty quiet here in NW FL. Signs and flags have been dialing back for quite awhile. No more roadside MAGA merchandise stands. LOL, Gaetz signs are pretty rare and I'm not aware of a single DeSantis sign.

I'll be at the polls, and I'll be looking out for bullshit.

[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I often think what we as a society would get from Sophie Scholl if she lived in "peaceful" times. Even from her herself if she survived WWII.

Or are indeed out there concurrent Sophies Scholls but are being discredited and effectively silenced?
(Even much more effectively than Sophies words were at her time)

Silenced because they can't activate us, havers of smol mates?
The world is a fuck.
(and thats because it has people in it)

[–] blady_blah@lemmy.world -3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Spoken like someone who doesn't actually have a family.

[–] Sanguine@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

She was a 21yo student, obviously she isnt speaking from the experience of a mid 30~ with a family. Putting that aside, are you saying that a person with a family, by necessity, needs to restructure values to include survival by any means? By making waves you would introduce potential harm to the family?

No doubt the folks she is referring to do this, but shit... thats putting way to much power into those that expect you to not make waves which would only embolden someone to take advantage of that with threats of intimidation.

[–] blady_blah@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

"are you saying that a person with a family, by necessity, needs to restructure values to include survival by any means?"

Yes. I will eat way more shit to ensure the survival of my wife and kids than I would as a single person who only has my life to risk.

[–] Sanguine@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Yeah that makes sense. So, we kind of need people like Sophia to make statements like this for ya'll who "can't" due to risks involved?

Rather than disparaging her sentiment we should be thanking her, and those like her for taking a stand when we are unable to.

[–] blady_blah@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Her whole statement is disparaging people who don't fight. I'm not disparaging her as a freedom fighter, if that's what she was, but in her words that say if you make decisions for the good of your family, you "live small, mate small, die small". That's an insult to people who try to make decisions to protect their family or are not in a position to take up arms in a noble fight, or some other bullshit.

[–] wieson 1 points 1 month ago

Christoph Probst was also a member of the white rose, had a wife and three kids, was still executed for his role in fighting against Hitler.