Instread of punching right, let's punch left and then pretend we are punching right - liberals.
this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2024
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Let’s pretend we don’t know how FPTP voting works and don’t know what a spoiler vote is
- people LARPing as progressives.
~~FPTP~~ RCV is already getting banned in multiple states. It is nothing but a carrot to keep you voting for the both sides in power.
As soon as it dares to come close to being reality the Democrats will get on board with banning it because "it's confusing" just like the Republicans.
Cool. How does it work right now?
My bad I meant RCV I was confused with another comment.
The only way to break a two party system that agrees on every major bad policy is to have a third party win. Democrats are just Republicans these days and Republicans have become more hardcore right wingers.
Ok. That still doesn’t address my first reply to you.
What is being spoiled by not voting for Biden exactly?
If anything Democrats are the ones casting the spoiler votes by shooting themselves in the foot and refusing to unite behind a third party.
Oh… maybe you guys don’t actually know how it works.
Even Republicans know. I think I gave “progressives” too much credit.
Republicans know that they have to keep voting Republican to make sure the blue guy does not win.
Democrats know that they have to keep voting Democrat to make sure the red guy does not win.
I'm seeing some similarities here.
They both know how FPTP voting works.
They must both be very smart people.
It actually doesn’t take much smarts. Unfortunately it still seems out of reach for some.
Does any progressive actually like West?
Sure West is a great guy. He should be president.
I'm a progressive. I like it when he debates a moron. He's good at making an argument, and he's not wrong about a lot of progressive issues.
But he strikes me as a diva more than a leader. He seems to want to be in the spotlight, and is willing to say something mildly unpopular with the most offensive spin possible. The only reason to do that is for attention. You won't convince people you're right with incendiary rhetoric, and it makes it much easier for conservatives and centrists to paint socialists as cranks.
He's like the anti-Walter Sobchak. He's not wrong, he's just an asshole. He's also often wrong, but that's not how the line goes. Would Libertarians like Walter if he ran for president? I dunno, libertarians are all cranks so maybe they would.
Anyway, I don't mind West running now to raise issues, but I wouldn't vote for him in this election and I don't know anyone else who will. He's not siphoning support from Biden, because any reasonable progressive is voting against Trump.
You'll note I said 'like' in favor of 'vote'... Obviously we need to be voting to defeat trump, and I doubt any credible progressive is going to be not recognizing that.
but can I ask who, if that wasn't an issue, would you like? Or maybe better way of saying it. If we had ranked choice or similar voting system... who'd be your first pick?
Bernie will always be my first pick as long as he isn't retired.
They didnt just screw Bernie. They screwed America
a vote for cornel west is a vote against trump.
I don't subscribe to the belief that third party votes are "owed" to anybody. I've voted for third party candidates in the past, hoping to send a message to candidates from the two parties, with almost no success.
For a while, I worked as a realtor, and we would talk about the value of direct mailer postcards. The critical point was that you were trying to send a message to the recipient in the time that it took them to see your postcard and walk it over to their recycling bin. That was your window, and if your message took longer than that to digest, it was wasted.
That's how I think of the message you send with a third party vote. The message lasts as long as it takes for the party to walk your votes over to their trashcan. Your candidate won't win. If the message is strong, like say for instance the margin of victory is smaller than the percent of third party votes, they might remember you in the next election. Maybe. But they are just as likely to write it off as a fluke or an outlier, because that's easier than introspection.
There are two viable parties. You can support one or the other, or neither. But there is a clear difference between the two, and while you might not like everything about one party, there's going to be one party that stands for everything you hate.
You can vote against the party you hate, but if you don't, you can't really complain when they win and do everything you hate. Voting for a third party does nothing at all.
a vote for any party is a vote against all other parties.
Not really. A vote for a third oarty is a vote for nobody.
only a no vote is a vote for nobody. don't spread misinformation.
If you go to a restaurant, let's say McDonald's, and you order something they don't have, like oysters and pasta, you aren't going to get what you ordered. It's as though you haven't ordered at all, because you won't get it.
You might think that ordering it could let McDonald's know that there is a demand for oysters and pasta, and maybe they will change the menu.
That won't work.
You might think other people in the restaurant will overhear you order it and decide they want that, too.
That won't work either.
Your order serves no purpose. Technically, you've asked for something, demanded it even, but you won't get it and you never will change the restaurant or the menu that way.
Telling anyone otherwise is spreading misinformation.
there will be more than two names on the ballot, and write ins are always allowed. this analogy doesn't hold up.
They ask what you want at McDonald's, and you can ask for anything you want. That doesn't mean you'll get it. The analogy is accurate.
but write in candidates can win. McDonald's menu options are disanalogous to voting.
For downballot races? Sure. If you're voting for a state rep or some uncontested local race, every vote counts. But we're talking about a presidential election, and under the current rules, a write in candidate will never win.
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Bill Maher is a piece of shit. I’m very happy they had a falling out.
.
Isn't it time to delete all your comments again?
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If they are voting for West they sure as fuck wouldnt vote for Biden if he weren't running. This is spoiler effect bullshit
Cornel West is a Republican operative.
He's being assisted by Republican operatives, he is not HIMSELF a Republican operative.
https://newrepublic.com/post/182486/republican-operatives-cornel-west-ballot-north-carolina