this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2024
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Harris only received five percent of Republican votes — less than the six percent Joe Biden won in 2020 when he beat Trump, as well as the seven percent won by Hillary Clinton in 2016 when she lost to him. While Harris won independents and moderates, she did so by smaller margins than Biden did in 2020.

Meanwhile, Harris lost households earning under $100,000, while Democratic turnout collapsed. Votes are still being counted, but Harris is on pace to underperform Biden’s 2020 totals by millions of votes.

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[–] b34k@lemmy.world 61 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

Yes, my friend was one of them. I was shocked when 2 weeks before election he told me he was planning on not voting.

I asked why and he cited holding the same position Isreal as Biden, and courting republicans like Cheney, saying that was not a good look for the party at all.

I told him it’s not ideal, but we need to vote to keep Trump out…. Sometimes we just have to be pragmatic.

He responded saying it’s the Dem establishment that keeps allowing a boogey man like Trump to rise so they can shove center right corporatists down our throats. He said he was abstaining from voting to send a message to the DNC, and followed it up with, “we survived a first Trump term, I’m sure we can survive a second.”

[–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 60 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

we survived a first Trump term

As long as you weren't one of the million Americans who died of COVID thanks to his misadministration.

Or the Capitol police who died as a result from his attempted insurrection.

[–] b34k@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I mean, he’s an ex-pat who was living in Hong Kong, S Korea, and Vietnam for most of Trumps first term… so I’m sure he didn’t feel it as hard as most of us who were here for it.

[–] Jerkface@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

"Thousands of my countrymen will perish, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."

[–] Damage@feddit.it 6 points 2 weeks ago

It's a mistake reasoning as if you're taking of one guy. Maybe one third of your population voted, and most of those voted for Trump, it means that most of you guys are pretty ok with dying during the next COVID or whatever

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I asked why and he cited holding the same position Isreal as Biden, and courting republicans like Cheney, saying that was not a good look for the party at all.

I told him it’s not ideal

And this is what you don't get. There's a huge fucking gap between "not ideal" and "supporting genocide to the point that Dick Cheney likes you." And you didn't acknowledge it. You just belittled it with "not ideal." Because you couldn't admit that what Democrats were doing was monstrous and unconscionable.

Anyone who pulls this "you didn't get 100% of everything you want, but..." shit? They got 100% of everything they wanted. Especially the genocide support. And especially Cheney.

[–] IceColdBoots@lemmy.world -2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

So the thought is that Trump will stop the genocide.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The thought is that running to the right failed. The thought is that Harris should have listened to criticism.

We tried to warn you what would happen, and every last time, we got this insipid unthinking "you say something me not want hear! Me accuse you of being trumper! Me very smart!" shit. You have learned absolutely nothing from 2016 and 2024.

In 2028, if there is an election, let's hope some of you have learned that treating your base with contempt while simping for Republicans doesn't work.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 weeks ago

They won't. They'll be open fascists in hope that motivates people on trump's 3rd term.

[–] IceColdBoots@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Dems have always hated progressives more than the right. And you're saying "you" a bunch, and I guess you mean neoliberal Democrats or some other people who aren't me... but anyway.

I'm asking about the strategy of, on election day: "One side is/is moving towards the right, and I don't like that. To combat that, I'll allow the most extreme right people into power, with a solid chance of destroying whatever is left of USA's democracy, while stripping it for parts."

In a binary system, how does choosing the worse side help you? Did you not learn from Trumps last victory, that sitting on the sideline while fascists take away more and more rights while cementing their power and destroying institutions, doesn't work?

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

You just got a great indicator of where the "Let's do anything we want and as long as we're second worst, everyone who isn't a monster has to vote for us!" mindset leads.

But blaming the voters is easier than introspection and adaptation. So lecture away and learn nothing.

[–] IceColdBoots@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

I was simply asking the thought process on voting day while agreeing with the majority of your complaints. But you aren't interested in discussing anything, you just want to throw a fit and feel smug. Carry on then, I'm sure that's working out for you.

[–] Carnelian@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] b34k@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, I am definitely in the camp that Trump part 2 will be worse…. but we don’t know for sure yet

[–] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Keep in mind Trump is pushing 80 and has a steady diet of McDonalds and Diet Coke. Here’s to hoping nature takes its course.

[–] angrystego@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Do you think Vance is going to be better?

[–] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Better isn’t the word I would use. I don’t think Vance could be the cult leader Trump is. I think when Trump dies it will at least take some time to build up another cult leader.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 weeks ago

I honestly don't know. He's not as viscerally mean as Trump, but he's also a lot smarter. I think some part of him is a fancy boy who wants to be liked and to win by being clever and insightful rather than just brutal. He used to write about his nice life in San Francisco doing community gardening. If he could get the upper-crust to like him (not just use him) that seems like something he'd enjoy.

But then again, he sold out to the guy he thought was Hitler, so he might just be completely without shame or conscience.

[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

He responded saying it’s the Dem establishment that keeps allowing a boogey man like Trump to rise so they can shove center right corporatists down our throats. He said he was abstaining from voting to send a message to the DNC, and followed it up with, “we survived a first Trump term, I’m sure we can survive a second.”

I remember when I was 14.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

"we survived"

Many didn't and even more won't this time, your friend is a genocide supporter

[–] Saleh 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

So not voting for genocidal candidates now make genocide support? stop projecting.

The Dems were hellbent on supporting gneocide. People chose to be fine with it, even attacking people who called it out.

The flak we got here for saying for months the Dems need to stop the genocide support to win the election now raises the question whether they were just tactically wrong, or whether they werent really into the genocide themselves. That would explain why now there is efforts to project it on the other people.

At every turn we were told that supporting genocide is better than supporting genocide and homophobia. Saying we should push for a non genocidal candidate, for which there was plenty of time at first, got immediately shut down.

The most consistent position of the Biden/Harris fans was to accept genocide, because that was the strongest criticism raised consistently against them. Now you end up not only having lost the election but having lost the election because you were in support of genocide.

It is no wonder that Trump managed to win, when the center is so morally bankrupt. It is no wonder that there was no way to inspire people to vote for Harris and Biden if the messaging constantly was "yeah we are morally bankrupt and we are also genociders and racists, but we are less than the other side. This is as good as we allow to happen".

This is on the Democrat elites and their supporters. Own up to it instead of projecting the blame.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works -3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Democrats: Support Israel, say they want the conflict to stop and a two States solution. Want to send weapons to Ukraine. Support minorities in the US.

Republicans: Support the genocide of Palestinians, of Ukrainians and of minorities inside the USA.

Voting for Republicans and not voting (so leaving the door open to them) is supporting genocide.

[–] Saleh 5 points 2 weeks ago

So every Israel aka genocide supporter had a safe vote with Trump. Everyone who opposes it had no choice with either party.

[–] UsernameHere@lemmy.world -5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Funny thing is your friends opinions are popular on lemmy.ml which makes it seem like foreign actors are pushing these talking points. They definitely worked in Trumps favor.

[–] Saleh 3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Now the blue MAGA is talking about the election being stolen...

Seriosuly how did you expect to win against Trump by copying Trump? People always chose the original authoritarian nazi asshole over the knock-off copy.

You know what wouldnt have worked in Trumps favor? Stopping the genocide in Gaza. That would have led to a landslide victory for the Dems.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 2 weeks ago

That would have led to a landslide victory for the Dems.

Honestly, probably not really. It'd have likely led to a closer election by winning them Michigan, but the Democrats had a more fundamental problem than very unpopular foreign policy.

[–] UsernameHere@lemmy.world -2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Now the blue MAGA is talking about the election being stolen...

What is this supposed to mean? Who is the blue maga?

Who is suggesting copying Trump?

The polls show voters were motivated by inflation. As much as I’d like the people of Palestine to not be safe and thrive, I literally don’t know anyone irl that considered that when voting. But the way it is pushed on lemmy you’d think it is Iran voting for Americas next president.