Ask Lemmy

I don't want fuel your fire, but here was my experience with my father. My dad had installed a keylogger on my macbook so he could see everything I was doing up until I moved out of his house. And because he was the account owner to my phone plan he was emailed every text I sent and received with friends. I wiped my macbook and erased my phone when I went to college to protect myself. He would take my phone every night and look through to make sure I wasn't looking at illicit materials online, I was a closeted gay kid and I liked prn, sue me. My dad found evidence and took me to sex addicts anonymous because I was watching gay prn. I wasn't allowed a phone or computer in my room, he took my Alexa out of my room. I really hope this doesn't happen with other parents, or never gets that bad. I know this probably isn't a common problem but it happened to me. Be strong and don't let your parents see you cry, also if you have bad blood with siblings try to talk to them they might have advice or experienced the trauma you could be feeling.

My SO knows my passwords and I hers. I don't have anything to hide so I never have to panic if she wants my devices (for ordering food etc).

I can see why this is a contentious topic for either paranoids or people who aren't being truthful to their partners.

I had a fear that a live-in girlfriend had installed spy software on my phone.

I never did find out whether she had. But I did uncover a bunch of lies on her part, and generally speaking discovered that it was not wise to trust her with my heart and sanity.

It’s likely that my worry about her possibly having hacked my phone was a result of my subconscious noticing things my conscious mind didn’t until later.

On the other hand, at the time I had a tendency toward paranoia.

Looking back, the paranoia could have been a sort of “mental inflammatory response” to actual sketchy shit going on, even if the specific notions my paranoia presented weren’t, themselves, true.

At a deeper level, my breaking up with her was part of an ongoing process of integrating my own mind in a way that led to a lot less second guessing. For example before this transformation I never trusted my gut. I’d get a gut read, but then I’d have to justify it with demonstrable evidence before I acted on it.

A psychologist, who actually helped me find the courage to break up with her and supported me in that process, told me during one session “You need to develop an alliance with your subconscious mind”.

In response to his saying that, I remember sitting on a bus as it went along a loop route, just in a sort of eyes-half-closed almost trance, as I basically tried to strike an alliance with my subconscious mind.

The deal, that was formed in an actual sort of conversation with my subconscious, was this:

• My subconscious serves me by providing me with motivation and mental clarity to get things done
• I serve my subconscious by listening when it tells me it needs something; ie I trust it as a solid source of information

During that bus ride, I suddenly felt a sense of wholeness and fullness. My paranoia decreased enormously. I felt like it was time to get moving, so I stepped off at the next stop.

Then suddenly realized I was near her work. And also suddenly realized I had the courage to break up with her. She wasn’t at work, but rather at a nearby gym. I went to the gym and broke up with her.

Since then, it has been much easier to make decisions. My life feels richer. I don’t have any qualms about rejecting a person or situation just because it doesn’t feel right; no more articulable justification is needed.

I can now say “nah, no thanks” to things without needing an argument about why beyond “I just don’t like it”, or “I don’t feel like it”.

My advice, if you want advice, would be to consider this concept of making an alliance with your subconscious. Make sure you two are on the same team. Be willing to act on its information, and ask it to help you meet your goals.

Maybe I’m fucking nuts to see things that way, but I really felt like I was communing with another being during that bus ride. That was six years ago. Now it doesn’t feel like a separate being. I’m a lot more in touch with my feelings. It feels like an integrated whole, because we have a lot of practice acting as a team now.

But at the time, I was cut off and separated from that part of myself. The first step toward integration was establishing a quid pro quo based on mutual respect. And a commitment not just to demand help from it, but also to provide help to it. I (the conscious part) promised to it that I would uphold my side of the bargain, and I’ve stuck to it.

I hope this helps. I know it sounds really weird.

In the past, i have because my mom would routinely snoop to see if I was still talking to the boy she forbade me to date (I was, and i got more clever about hiding it). The only way she let me keep a phone was if I didn't put a pass code on it.

Fast forward to a couple of years after moving out of her house and in an emotionally abusive relationship. That dude ended up putting spyware on my phone (without my knowledge) because.. well, idk, control i guess? I was messaging a close guy friend of mine, and my boyfriend fucking blew up at me, which is when I realized he had been spying on me. I wasn't flirting with my guy friend or anything (we really didn't have a relationship like that at all). he was just messaging me late at night because his step dad was abusive to him and I was helping him through that tough time. My boyfriend did not allow me to message another male after 9p.

Those had me paranoid, but can't say I'm paranoid anymore. I'm married to a guy I trust, and he has my phone password info and I have his. I don't snoop in his phone and I trust that he isn't snooping in mine. Not like I have anything juicy in here, anyway.

But yeah, if you're feeling paranoid without someone having previously violated your trust, it could be because you are doing things on your phone that you consider to be very private/embarrassing/nefarious? If so, that kinda makes sense I think. If that's not the case, then respectfully, it might be good to see a mental health professional.. life becomes a lot less stressful without worrying about shit like that.

No. But sometimes I wonder if anyone around me can read my thoughts and I become super self-conscious of what I'm thinking.

It already happened to me.

My old phone was on a Verizon family plan, with my family.

Problem: My dad is a QAnon nut who builds ghost guns in his garage.

Mom is a pushover, brain broken from a childhood of drug abuse.

Brother dropped out of high school to do drugs at raves, very emotionally unstable, 3 different times in my life I've had to drop everything to save him from becoming homeless and/or dying of an overdose, all occuring either when i was getting two bachelors degress simultaneously at the best uni in the state, or right after I graduated.

I up and left one day after getting sick of their bullshit. Just completely ghosted them after I couldn't stand their bullshit anymore.

For the next two weeks, my brother keeps somehow showing up every 2 days, despite me being in locations I've never, ever been to before.

He is always in his car, slow crawling, looking at his phone, looking around, then panicking when he realizes I am staring at him, driving off.

Hrm. Turn off GPS? Nope, brother keeps showing up.

Call up Verizon explain what is going on, they say oh you're not an authorized plan admin.

Huh. I was 2 weeks ago.

Root the phone, properly de google it.

My phone plan is then immediately cancelled, within a minute of booting up the phone again.

Call up Verizon (on a shitty grocery store sim card). Oh yeah your phone number was disabled by the admin, you have to contact them to enable it, no you cannot transfer the number to your own new plan, that's all we can tell you.

... My family de listed me as an admin from the phone plan, enabled parental controls to literally stalk me, then disabled and froze my number/line after i uninstalled their ability to do that.

... This also had the fun side effect of locking me out of every single account that that I was using that number for with 2FA, so, no more banking for me!

If you think I'm nuts: This is just an optional feature in a Verizon family plan.

Works to approximate location even if the target phone doesn't have the app installed on it.

https://www.verizon.com/support/verizon-family-faqs/

What Verizon Family features are available without downloading the Verizon Family Companion app on my dependent's device?

Certain features are only available if the Companion app is installed on your dependent's smartphone and paired with the Verizon Family app on your device.*

Without pairing, you can:
    View Verizon cellular call and text activity†
    Set time restrictions on texts, calls and data usage**
    Set data limits**
    Set text and call limits†
    Get access to the device's network location

    Note: Network location accuracy may vary up to a few miles.

Obviously if you are stationary, and connected to a WiFi network with a known location, like a motel, or a library, or a coffee shop, you can narrow the pure cell tower triangulation error range, by a lot.

So uh yeah, if you have a Verizon family plan, you can easily be under realtime surveillance by whoever is the actual plan master.

No. I'm confident they aren't capable of getting past the login on my devices and my file cabinet is locked.

Controlling parents in your life?

No. They're to technologically inept.

This reminds me of OCD, tbh. OCD works like this: The Obsession: it’s a persistent thought that you can’t stop thinking about. That you ruminate over and that causes you anxiety. Such as, “someone poisoned my food” or “I left the stove on at home” or “my actions will cause a butterfly effect that will lead to somebody’s death” or “someone could have bled on that sink handle and they had HIV”. Some thought like that, that is sometimes completely illogical. But you cannot argue with how illogical it is, because you feel anxious regardless. Your fear exists separately from what you know is logical.

The there is the Compulsion: you try to alleviate this anxiety/fear by doing an action. Whether it’s praying, or counting, or whatever. If you fear poison, you might only eat in tiny bites. If you fear you left your stove on, you might check it 10 times in a row. If you fear the butterfly effect, you might wait to walk out of your door until it “feels right”. Doesn’t matter what it is. It’s often not logical either. But it makes the anxiety go away.

The the D in OCD is Disorder, because it negatively impacts your life and wastes your time in a significant way. Like, everyone might worry that they left the stove on once in a while, but not everyone is consistently going back to check it 10 times. Or 30 times. Etc.

The reason this sounds like it could possibly be OCD to me is because you have the Obsession that you are being spied on. And you presumably do Compulsions like covering your phone or checking for malware like, all the time. In order to alleviate the anxiety of the Obsession.

So. Not schizophrenia imo. You clearly know it’s not logical of you to be so paranoid. But perhaps OCD. Idk! Only you and a doctor can figure that out.

If I were you I’d ask myself if there are any other things you do that follow this pattern. And that negatively affect your life/mood. People with OCD usually have multiple obsessions and compulsions in response to those obsessions. And these can be observed to change over time too. Think about your childhood. Think about your present.

Locking your phone, setting it to auto lock, using biometrics so the pin is hard to steal, etc are all perfectly reasonable things to do. You have a right to privacy

If you have abusive and technically skilled family who have been caught spying on you with technical means, worrying they might do it again would be reasonable

If you constantly worry about something that you have no tangible reason to consider a credible threat, it might be some other issue, from anxiety to OCD. Perhaps try to talk to a professional?

I used to, but I grew up in a house where privacy was a thing that existed in stories, only for other people. Me and my brothers had our rooms regularly searched, and our phone calls eavesdropped on. My parents weren’t secret about it, except when they tried to be, but we knew all the signs and so knew when to keep our mouths shut, and we also got really good at hiding things.

It’s taken decades for me to adjust to the idea that my spouse doesn’t (and won’t) go through my stuff (and yes, this is something I’ve tested him on without his knowledge).

My parents regularly did go through my things when I was living with them, and I did get in trouble for the most random things they found. Not a great feeling, but at least they don't have a spare key for my current apartment.

absolutely, can't do anything embarrassing In case someone is watching, can't freely use the web -they (parents) could check our router and see everything. Also I can't be in any room of the house that isn't mine, as they could be there, or be watching. I think they read my diaries, although I've hidden them. I stopped writing or, couldn't write the truth in it anymore because I was afraid. Its never crossed my mind, they could've just installed something while I was sleeping, but that's mostly because I just have my pohone with me at mostly all times.

maybe its just because most of this has happened, and my personal stuff never was safe and never will be. I can say, this has scarred me for life now, and these feelings won't fade, as they have already migrated/taken over my whole day. Constant paranoia everywhere and irrational. I can't do anything correctly anymore. I might actually die because of this but whatever

I know people that do snoop. I had a friend that once asked me if I go through people's medicine cabinets when I go to their bathroom or through all of their things when I house sit. I gave a solid no because not only do I respect people's privacy, I don't even want to know what's in there. That's too much knowledge for my limited brain space. She responded that she does every time she has a chance. People be going thru your shit, and it's the gross ones.

Nop, and nor do my friends. If we really wanted each other's info we just ask.

Being wary is a thing but constantly worrying is an issue. Either you can trust your family enough to not do that or you should wonder about living on your own. But you gotta make sure you are not falling into paranoia. It is a concerning disease and you should be careful not to fall into it.

This won't help you on the tech stuff but one technique I use at work is to set "traps". Very simple things like placing a tiny piece of paper in a place where it will fall if a door is opened. A piece of tape or thread works too. I'll take a picture for reference

I don't have that fear, no. But I've also never really had my privacy invaded in ways I didn't officially condone, either. I bet if that happened even once I'd be a bit more anxious about it.

I'm not, but this is one of the reasons I never wanted to move for college, and also part of why I don't want ever to live at a rented place. I don't believe "they are out to get me", I don't believe I would be targeted, but I do believe that it can happen in the wrong environment, and you never know. I'm also aware that I wouldn't necessarily notice it, or if I did I wouldn't know what was compomised.

I don't normally think about this at home where my family lives, but sometimes I remember that they don't always lock the door, or that sometimes we have guests.
if I had a housemate I would expect it to be a similar case, except if that was not really a choice. I would still put a simple password on my computer, but I wouldn't go out of my way to set up disk encryption just for that

Like every time I wake up, I wonder if my parents or brother put some malware/spyware on my phone because they think its a funny prank or whatever.

there's something unhealthy in that. either that you think about such things, or that there is a reason you do so in your environment

Every time I enter my PIN for my phone, I always cover the screen before entering it in case my parents have cameras in the house. And even more so in public, I'd fear CCTV getting my PIN.

It's good to be cautious to having cctv see your passwords in public. but at home, again it depends but shouldn't be a concern.

I can only dream that people would care about me enough to do such things. Most people barely acknowledge my existence.

I used to have that fear when I was a kid living with family and my mom in particular was very nosey. I understand a nosey parent to make sure you kid isn't into drugs, but she went way beyond that. She was also paranoid so she was convinced I was doing fucked up shit without any evidence.

It took me a long time to get over that. I did have a friend who was rooting through a couple of my things and we stopped being friends not long after. As far as I know, no one else has gone through my stuff.

The only time I've ever gone through anybody else's stuff is to look through my mom's drawers for things she stole and my ex's phone after many years and other evidence that he was fucking around behind my back and I wanted to know for sure that he was. I hated doing it in both cases because I didn't like it being done to me but felt that was the last option I had.

So yeah, with psycho family, you have every right to feel that way. Just know that isn't normal and that most people won't do that.

Not at all.

I have taught my family to use PIN codes / passwords.

No, but I would invite the idea. If someone would be THAT interested, I would gladly show them all the fckd up shit I look up and create. If they did it w/o my consent, lol for them.

Rule 12 applies in all aspects of life; not just on the Internet.

If I ever paid for a will, I have this idea that I would want all the contents of my devices, and my search history published, and a QR code put on my gravestone. But I would imagine it wouldn't be any more unique than most others.

I don't, and they couldn't get in if they tried

Honestly, I sometimes fear that I live in a more extreme Truman Show, where everyone can read my thoughts and plays along. So yeah, kinda?

Nah. I use a password lock instead of biometrics even if my family actually cares enough to want to.

No, I know my girlfriend doesn’t look at my stuff but I couldn’t care less if she did. The worst things i have on my devices are pirated games and movies and she can enjoy those all she wants

I think this comes from inside, if you are the type of person that snoops into other people’s stuff you would probably also be afraid others do the same. I couldn’t care less what my girl does on her phone (she would let me if I wanted to though) so I don’t look.

Occasionally (when looking at something I'd rather they didn't know about), the thought that my partner might have installed something that monitors all network traffic and what websites are accessed crosses my mind... But I don't seriously worry about that, because I trust the people I live with, and they wouldn't do things like that.

Maybe your family are less respectful, or think messing with people is funny? But it also might be an expression of social anxiety. It's a pretty typical symptom of anxiety to worry that other people are thinking about us, talking about us, noticing tiny things (when most of the time people don't actually care that much). So worrying about spyware could be a modern version of that?

I wonder if there are some simple tech soloutions you could implement? Even if you simply get a cloud based log of every time your phone is unlocked, you'd be able to spot unauthorised access while you're sleeping. But the real answer is probably working on your sense of security and trust. Do you really have reasons not to trust these people? And if they did find out what you did on your phone, would it really matter? As some of the other commentators have said, if you're secure in yourself, then your online activity becoming public shouldn't worry you.

Can't say that I do.

My spouse and I know each others passwords, and I don't have anything to hide from them either so no I'm not concerned about that.

I am on my parents family plan, so they could potentially see some of my stuff, but I'm sure they don't know how and wouldn't be able to keep up with it even if they did