politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
Deport everyone who arrived after 1350AD and their descendents. Make America native again
The sad part is, first nations folks don't even want to do this, they serve in the armed forces at very high rates, I don't mean it's sad they are very much American, I mean it's sad that they have more respect on average for other Americans than people have respect for them.
Yup. Remember that right wing asshole candidate who yelled at a native American lady to 'go back there she came from'? You can bet he will be gleeful about these plans.
These people are totally lacking in any self-awareness or sense of history.
Doesn't help that so many of them are trying to cozy up to MAGA.
Seems arbitrary, as a date. Deport everyone whose ancestors immigrated. That's the 'first' nations, too.
Not entirely arbitrary. I tried to pick a date before the majority of Europeans immigrated. The goal was to point out the absurdity of the original idea by taking it to an extreme.
Yeah but they immigrated from Europe and do you think Europe will take both them and white Americans?
Animals got here before humans did. Deport all humans.
🤓
As a human, I support this. We just make things worse.
MANA.
I am a wizard and I approve this acronym.
Yeah, kick them all out! My 23andme says I am 3% native American so I can say that.
Boy I'm gonna get a lot of fucking mileage out of this image, aren't I...
Why is Marty an aware Nazi? Who are they?
The joke is time travel i guess; everything the Nazi's pioneered is being not-so-slowly parroted by Trump and crew like its new again, when its really not...
Ugh I hate that. Maybe he'll get Mexico to pay for it again? 😑
The It Could Happen Here podcast pointed out that the sheer amount of financial maneuvering to pull this off would not be an insignificant amount, from detention centers to staffing, etc. Not that it's an impossible task but it's a lot bigger to pull off than bOtH SiDeS tend to think.
Well Texas just offered Trump the land for it. So that covers that (though I'm sure he'll find a way to get taxpayers to pay for it and take a cut)
I'm not sure how much of a financial burden the staffing side will actually be. Trump's campaign has been going around the heartland for 2-3 years, gathering up the names of eager supporters who want to help him in any way possible.
I'm pretty sure if those volunteers are told they will a) be helping Dear Leader, b) be given unchecked powers to torment and intimidate Latinos/Latinas, they will leap at the opportunity. And they will probably happily pay for any accommodation and food out if their own pocket.
Also, how will this reverse prices back to the "good old days" of donvict's first tenure?
I mean, I'm using my entire paycheck up on a dozen eggs, or so "JD" "Vance" told me.
It will destroy the economy, entire sectors of commerce will end, and Trump was trying to shut down all trade from the southern boarder entirely his whole last term, no matter how many times his staff told him billions of dollars in trade cross the boarder every single day. If he dosen't have people in place willing to tell him no. Which he's getting really good at placing yes men everywhere, then he'll probably do that as well, and might do it with flights and trains from the south of the US as well. If that happens and he's dumping billions into depopulating the US by 22mil the US is going see the worst economic disaster in our history by several magnitudes. Maybe enough protesters get organized and strategically block road for long enough to actually slow them down, but with the US military I don't see that happening.
Imagine you create a world where currency becomes less and less valuable. Essentially it becomes worthless.
Debts, will, of course, soar out of control. Trump, banks, private equity, mortgages, etc. Everyone is underwater.
How do people eat? How do people get medical care? How do people have shelter? Why it's easy of course. The Party provides. "But wait that's communism!" Hold on there buddy, communism is collectivism. This isn't collectivism, this is fascism. The Government takes control of failing businesses, and decides who continues to be rich and who doesn't. Workers are provided new "currency" tied to essentially paying the owners of everything the right to work, eat, be sheltered, and get medicine. In exchange, they do exactly what they are told. If you step out of line, well, there is a camp for that.
"They couldn't enforce such a thing." China and Russia already have. I would not call it successful, at some point it will fail rapidly and harshly, Fascism always does.
There is no end game here. The intent is absolute power. The consequences aren't important for those that obtain the power during their lifetime.
I don't think this will work the way he expects. While he has the 'legal' authority to take command of a State's National Guard, there is absolutely no way a single one of the governors would allow this. The red states may allow the military into their bluer cities, but the Democrat governors have largely already said they'll refuse it.
The largest issue is that the "Mass Deportations" don't forcibly remove people from the country. They have to process where they all get sent. Guess where they concentrate the immigrants? Guess what happens when those facilities get too full to use them as a cheap source of labor or keep them fed?
Guess who’s fault it will be when the price of strawberries goes up.
But will the military comply?
Trump is already planning on introducing a mechanism to fire generals he doesn't like. A review board consisting of retired generals. I don't know what would be required to pass that, but I assume a simple majority in House / Senate, plus a predetermined ruling in the inevitable SCOTUS challenge, will certainly go his way.
You (not you personally) chuckle fucks didn't vote against this. Great fucking job.
We don't have a lot of reason to think that the military wouldn't comply. We have a handful of examples of troops refusing orders from very close in the command hierarchy to commit overt inarguable war crimes. We have more examples to the contrary.
If they get the order from someone just up the chain to torch a subdivision and napalm the children, it's a coin toss. If it's the presidents policy, and they're just relocating people? Bit risky not to comply.
Is this uncharitable to the troops that a lot of people have high ideals will behave morally as regards legal and illegal orders? Most definitely. But also, they napalm civilian targets, torch villages and have literally rounded up Americans and our them in camps before, without due process. It's not even a novel situation.
There's quite a bit of training nowadays on how to identify and abso-fucking-lutely DO NOT follow unlawful orders, so I'd have a fair deal more faith in avoiding the napalm situation than a coin-toss... but there's also a lot of training on if it's a legal order you fucking FOLLOW it even if it's really uncomfortable. ...and relocating people who already don't have a legal status doesn't stand out as a unlawful order, so unfortunately I'd guess compliance will be around 100% on this one.
We have plenty of examples of soldiers merrily war-criming their way into history in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It doesn't matter how many power points you watch, it doesn't make a soldier not a soldier, and soldiers are defined by signing up to maybe do a bit of unprovoked violence.
They may or may not get punished for it later, but the sheer number of civilian casualties in both those wars makes it abundantly clear that killing civilians isn't the hard line we like to think it is. We just need to tell the pilot that it's a valid target, and chances are they'll bomb that wedding.
Humans are pretty willing to do messed up stuff in war. All that training is what gets you to the point where it's a coin toss, and not perfect willingness to engage in collective punishment, reprisal killing, intimidation murder or just plain "shooting through the windshields of cars for fun".
The key there is unlawful. Not immoral.
They hold all the keys. Both houses, the courts, the executive branch. They will simply make whatever the fuck they want legal.
There's still the UCMJ and rules of engagement. No idea what it takes to change those.
Idk, I'm grasping at straws to find a flicker of hope in this shitstorm.
USMJ was created by Congress. They can change that at will via legislation.
He will be replacing generals with fox news stuff until they do.
On this? I would assume so. I don't think there's a constitutional conflict unfortunately ethnic clensing is very much legal in the US framework, unless Biden spent significant amounts of time hiding legal prohibitions on ethnic clensing all over the place, it's still very legal. It's still legal for the US to forcibly sterilize anyone they can claim a biological flaw against. It's still legal to put people in concentration camps based on race, ethnicity, and national origin going back two generations. No one even cares that the last time Trump was in office ICE was forcing hysterectomies on asylum seekers of all ages with no medical justification.
Go for the ones wearing your stupid red hat, please.
how bout you deport your own ass to the polluted swamp that first congealed you
How? I just don't see this as a feasible course of action.
Isn’t it illegal to use the military internally? The National Guard, maybe. But, they answer to the state government.
He’ll have pushback if not outright mutiny from the military if he tries to use them against civilians, citizens or not.
Ahh, but this is why he's already forming a board to throw out any officers that are brash enough to get in his way, bypassing official channels. The endgame, as I see it, is a complete reorganization of the command structure, ending with something that looks like Russia, where specific orders come directly from the top of the government all the way down the chain, to squad-level sometimes. This gets rid of the extremely effective tactical flexibility that made the US so effective in WWII, but it also makes it so you can just axe any part of that totem pole that's stupid enough to get in your way without much problem.
Why do you think his first order of business is to court martial anybody who he thinks won't do his bidding?
Simple. Door to door searches. Just like some European country in the 1930s. This will go over great until people start knocking on the doors of his worshippers.
That, or like almost everything else he says, there is no detailed thought applied.
Since his decisive victory,
Decisive is now < 2% difference, I guess?
Decisive is winning popular vote, winning all swing states and having control of white house, congress and supreme court.