this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2024
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politics

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[–] RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 184 points 3 days ago (7 children)

Hello. I'm from Germany and I have bad news for you. If our own history taught me anything, it's this: When there is a critical mass of citizens (including military personnel) who are willing to ignore common societal values and at the same time there is a corrupt justice system which can just bend the law to their will, there is very little in the way to full scale fascism. You guys have the groundwork for this right in front of your face. Your supreme court is only inches away from fulfilling that role and the last election showed that a majority of people are already blindsided enough to wholeheartedly believe the bullshit that they are being fed.

So please don't take this lightly. Democracy is not for granted and it can be taken away. It's a slow process up to a point where things fall in place and then it happens very quickly. In Germany the rise of the Nazis didn't happen over night. Warning signs were there from the first world war on, and the slow erosion of society along with economic factors was a key element. Hitler himself was widely regarded as a loud mouthed clown with little chance to actually accomplish anything.

The erosion part has been going on in the US for decades now. This time, most of the puzzle pieces needed are already in place.

And about the "they are incompetent, it won't be that bad" argument. They don't need competence to break things when they are in power. Breaking things is precisely what these people are looking for. Destruction of democratic values, economic instability, fear, poverty, chaos and social unrest are the key to more power. You just need to look at the designated cabinet positions. Those candidates were specifically chosen to fuck things up in the worst way imaginable. This is not a coincidence. This is a recipe taken right from the fascist's handbook.

[–] frog_brawler@lemmy.world 69 points 3 days ago (1 children)

A lot of us know and agree.

[–] Freefall@lemmy.world 22 points 3 days ago (1 children)

We are the ones without any power.

[–] MySkinIsFallingOff@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Please find your groups, organize, protest, demand change. We, the rest of the world, saw how big you've protested for good before, and it's needed now more than ever in your country. You're not powerless, you're not alone, and your actions matter.

You live in a country that used to pride itself as a world leader, and while that image is long gone and lost, we're still watching you guys.

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[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 44 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You are correct, and those of us who aren't fucking morons have known this since even before he came into power the first time. We have a lot of horrible and/or apathetic people. Democracy is worthless if the populace is uninformed or doesn't participate. Now it's dead here.

[–] ziggurat@lemmy.world 17 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Education should be free, even for the kids if the neighbor you don't like.

Of course it's not free, it costs tax money, but it's okay. Id rather my neighbors had free education, then maybe I'd like them.

[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago (5 children)

I’d rather have less money and less idiots than more of both

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[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

the thing that infuriates me is not so much that it will happen, but that people will not believe that it is happening or has happened

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The problem is this is the US. This is the world's most major superpower. This is the nation whose companies fed and propped up the Nazis. Because what little of democracy there was in the US is now certainly going to fall, it's going to drag the whole world with it. Too many shitheads in too many countries, including Germany, will be willing to follow suit, and all the major superpowers left will be all too willing to prop them up with little to no regard for what rules they won't break in the process. We might even see the US trying to strong-arm nations in the same way China has been trying to strong-arm Taiwan. At a time where the surveillance and control tools at their disposal are at a dystopian high. At a time ramping up for chaos due to major environment and resource collapses that we have been foreseeing for decades.

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[–] ____@infosec.pub 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)
  • this is terrifying.
  • This does not sound legally permissible, see posse comitatus.
  • Members of the military have an obligation to refuse illegal orders. I am neither in the military nor a lawyer, so I can’t go too deep on that.

Even if we see (likely) “act first, let it wind through the courts later,” I’d expect there to be a substantial number of refusals.

[–] a9cx34udP4ZZ0@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Members of the military have an obligation to refuse illegal orders. I am neither in the military nor a lawyer, so I can’t go too deep on that.

I have no doubt this is his first step in ferreting out any military leadership who holds loyalty to the constitution over him personally. Whether this particular plan is blocked or not, it lets him clear out anyone who won't follow his orders without question going forward.

[–] wanderingmagus@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago

The US military is actually surprisingly decentralized, with a lot of leeway and authority given directly to NCOs, and officers routinely getting ignored, circumvented, or subjected to malicious compliance if they even order something considered unreasonable, much less illegal. Also see: fragging. Malingering. Mutiny. Desertion. And the worst nightmare - Insider Threat. So much of the military runs purely off of trust, faith, and compliance to words on a page.

You think Don't Ask Don't Tell was actually fully complied with? Sentries already fall asleep while at their post, willfully, without needing to have any excuse other than being tired or disliking the watch officer. Roving patrols routinely miss rounds, don't actually pay attention or inspect anything, and practice what we call "blazing logs", that is, writing down "all conditions satisfactory" without actually looking at the conditions. Maintenance also gets blazed all the time - technicians just straight up not doing the required maintenance and writing down that they did, substituting unauthorized materials, or half-assing the maintenance. Paperwork just gets "lost", or never gets signed, never gets filed, never makes it to the intended recipient, just because the admin secretary doesn't feel like it. Information isn't entered into a system, including disciplinary or otherwise disqualifying stuff, because the admin or command likes you or needs you.

Purging the upper brass won't do anything to circumvent or "fix" any of that, it'll make it worse, because it'll incentivize the servicemembers to do it even more. The E-4 Mafia will straight up disappear when needed, entire supply chains will stop cold. Separation and disciplinary paperwork will just not get sent.

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[–] frazw@lemmy.world 134 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Bracing for "Wait, I didn't think you meant me?!?!?"

[–] thefartographer@lemm.ee 79 points 4 days ago

"Cool, a leopard! Can I pet it?"

[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 55 points 3 days ago (1 children)

So, the Orange Turd plans on suspending the US Constitution and using the so-called national emergency to go for the full power grab. I certainly hope the US military upholds the pledge to protect the US Constitution.

[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

The US president is the commander in chief and the US military is subservient to US president, never mind how many of them come from the MAGA cult bubble themselves. The military is a poor safeguard for democracy.

[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago

The oath to protect the US Constitution from foreign and domestic enemies takes priority. You are correct in one regard, it will depend on the military leadership and soldiers.

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[–] f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4@sopuli.xyz 84 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Like the German version of Nazis before them, they aren't coming for their biggest target first. They're coming for their political opposition, the "abortionists", the atheists, the drug users, the mentally ill...

RFK Jr.:

"I’m going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall, and to spend time as much time as they need — three or four years if they need it— to learn to get reparented, to reconnect with communities,"

Re-education camps, huh.

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 93 points 4 days ago (24 children)

Next up: arson attack on US Congress. And then the Enabling Act.

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[–] NeoToasty@kbin.melroy.org 60 points 3 days ago (6 children)

Hope everyone in the military is going to be ready because this psycho is going to be calling on you...to do every little thing he wants.

Need to shut down those protesting against him? Better be there.

Need to start beating down people who voted against him? Better be there.

Nothing you'll do will be for the sake of this country's entire interests, it'll be for his interests.

[–] pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 30 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That's why I'm hoping the military does its job and protects the country and constitution from him.

[–] Sc00ter@lemm.ee 25 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Well if he has his way, he's going to be able to remove general at will

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[–] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 69 points 4 days ago (5 children)

"prepared to declare a national emergency and will use military assets to reverse the Biden invasion through a mass deportation program."

  • Trump reposted Fitton's comment Monday with the caption, "TRUE!!"

I don’t even know what to say. I’m gobsmacked to depression daily that you’re ok with this.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 73 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

But EGG PRICES! The economy!

And he's such a strong leader...

(I am paraphrasing actual interviews our local networks did with college students)

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[–] Sakychu@lemmy.blahaj.zone 40 points 4 days ago

Hey, the democratic party wasn't close enough to the workers so there was no alternative..

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[–] enbyecho@lemmy.world 34 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You know what amazes me? That any vaguely brown person who voted for Trump didn't seem to think that even if they are literally carrying their papers at all times and easily able to prove their citizenship, they are gonna be harassed constantly for the next four years. With hopeful some state exceptions, they are going to have to be very careful to speak only 'Murican in public and suppress public display of non-American cultures. They are literally going to be having to watch their backs every day.

WTF.

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[–] dragontamer@lemmy.world 40 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (23 children)

There are not enough ICE officers to conduct mass deportation in red states, let alone blue ones. Trump will require cooperation of local police.

If he uses the military in Blue states, it's an obvious attack on the 10th Amendment. It's also illegal to use the military for domestic police work.

We can bet on incompetence for now. Trump needs to grow ICE to a large size before he's even able to conduct a large scale deportation plan of any kind. Deploying the National Guard would be a faux pas, but that's probably the workaround else need to prepare for legally.

[–] justhach@lemmy.world 79 points 4 days ago (19 children)

Oh no, its illegal to use the military for domestic police work? Deploying the National Guard would be a "faux pas"?

Well, I'm sure that will stop him for sure!

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[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 19 points 4 days ago

Stoking a violent insurrection while plotting a coup violated a few laws and norms, too.

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[–] NineMileTower@lemmy.world 32 points 4 days ago (1 children)

The guy who couldn't build A WALL is going to orchestrate a mass deportation on millions and millions of people? Ok. Lol. Also, what happens when fruit/vegetables start to rot on the vine because they don't have anyone who will take their shit wages to do it.

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 20 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Well. The chips are down. Your move Generals.

For what it's worth I think there's going to be a ton of pushback. To the point where using the military for this becomes infeasible.

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[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

where do you go if you have no papers? a stateless purgatory camp?

[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago

they're called concentration camps because they concentrate all "illegals" in one convenient location for "processing".

people will lie to you and say it's not possible. they will lie to you and tell you it would never come to that. they will lie to you and tell you citizens would never allow that to happen.

they lied to themselves for eight years and said never again.

It's happening again.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 20 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (4 children)

Every single bad thing about this country, from now on, will be prepended with "Biden"

It shall be law.

I'm not actually sure if I'm joking.

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