this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2024
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Ye Power Trippin' Bastards

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This is a community in the spirit of "Am I The Asshole" where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.

Sometimes one just wants to be able to challenge the arguments some mod made and this could be the place for that.

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Five days ago, drag was banned from !politicalmemes@lemmy.world for using neopronouns. A comment explaining drag's pronouns, and a comment saying "drag" isn't a nickname, were removed with the reason "trolling". Drag understands why someone would think that using different pronouns than most people is trolling - transphobia. However, drag is confused how on earth not liking a nickname is a violation of any rules anywhere.

Context of the removed comments:

Drag would like to pre-empt any further accusations of trolling by asking a question: If drag were a right wing troll, and you chose to freely accept drag's pronouns, wouldn't that completely neuter the trolling attempt? Trolling is about trying to make others upset. You don't have to get upset when someone uses unusual pronouns. If you aren't transphobic, then it's impossible to troll you that way. And drag promises: drag wants you to not be transphobic. Drag is not trying to upset anyone. If you do what drag wants you to do, then you get what you want too. This is a non-issue, there's only a problem if you want there to be.

EDIT: DRAG DID NOT TELL ANYBODY TO USE DRAG'S PREFERRED PRONOUNS.

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[–] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 39 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Pronouns are generic by nature. A custom pronoun that applies to one person and only one person isn't a pronoun, it's a noun.

[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 2 weeks ago

I agree with this, it's why I find the concept of nounself and noun pronouns a bit confusing and unintuitive. Neopronouns, as in, the new gender neutral pronouns Ze/Zir, Xe/Xem/Xyr, Ve/Vis, etc. while they might be new to people aren't unintuitive, they function the same as any other pronoun, and can be used as drop in replacements for he/him and she/her.

Personalized pronouns like drag, apple, doll, demon, etc. don't work as well, because they aren't a generic replacement for using a person's name, they are more akin to a nickname and thus do not flow well in language as a replacement for pronouns.

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[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 28 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, someone with the name "dragonfucker" using "drag" as a first person pronoun definitely doesn't have the benefit of the doubt in my book.

And if you list your pronouns, you are in fact asking others to use them. I don't give a solitary shit what you call me, hence there not being any pronouns next to my name.

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[–] Gurfaild 25 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (10 children)

Part of what might make people think you're trolling is that you seem to use "drag" as a first person neopronoun but conjugate your verbs as if it were third person.

To someone who hasn't seen this before, interpreting it as if you use a nickname to talk about yourself in third person would be the only thing that makes grammatical sense.

Edit: this reminds me a bit of https://www.xkcd.com/169/ - you don't come across as smug, but you're definitely not communicating well

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly this: The word "Drag" is being used to refer to a third-person in these sentences, I had to double check that it was actually the troll themselves posting this.

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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago (18 children)

YDI. Replacing ungendered pronouns and insisting on their usage by others to refer to you is, at best, being annoying for its own sake. Like that fellow who insisted that their gender was 'droneself', or Phlubbadubba suddenly taking up Old English.

[–] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 8 points 2 weeks ago

Drone rights!

That was fundamentally a narcissist co-opting gender politics to control conversations. I think we’re seeing something similar here.

[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago

I remember that person, I'm basically convinced they were a troll, they're basically taking advantage of the fact that decent and well meaning people try their best to follow pronoun preferences, and are asking them to do something extremely difficult and lashing out and abusing those people when they make a mistake.

Honestly I have great hostility towards people who do this shit, because they are utilizing pronoun preferences as a form of bad-faith trolling so they can accuse people of being transphobes. I've had a lot of moments where I made myself feel really bad about encounters like this and felt like an awful person only to figure out later either from going back on the history of the interaction, or from talking with my other trans friends that I wasn't wrong or the asshole, they were.

I have a friend who does legitimately use noun pronouns (demon/demonself), however they also use they/them and ze/zir and they don't flip out when people don't use demon/demonself pronouns, they also don't yell at people for getting their pronouns wrong on accident. They usually just correct people, if it was on purpose they have gotten mad, they told me about a time when some transphobic right-winger insisted they were a "boy with boobs" and they did yell at that person, but they wouldn't yell at a random person IRL or online for saying miss/ma'am/sir because that isn't a reasonable or respectful reaction to something that was or likely was a mistake.

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[–] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Trolling is about trying to make others upset.

This is wrong. Trolling is about attention. Making others upset is an easy way to get attention but it's not the only one. Gimmick accounts are another, for example.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

PTB but seriously this is not a transphobic reaction.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

YDI. You weren't contributing to the community discussion. You turned the discussion into one about you. That's not helpful. the moderators were correct for removing you. For no other reason than you were off topic

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[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

A ban is too much. They can just ignore others, if their made up words confuse them. People make up words all the time. It's how language evolves. If someone ends up unable to communicate because of that, the situation will fix itself.

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[–] OmegaMouse@pawb.social 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (20 children)

I hope this doesn't come across as offensive (I appreciate that pronouns are something personal to the individual), but if I'm understanding correctly, drag is shorthand for dragon right? What about using the full word 'dragon' instead?

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[–] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 weeks ago (15 children)

Lol, you have other comments on your profile from like 2 days before this where you refer to yourself in normal pronouns, you can't even be consistent. If you legitimately held these opinions it'd be every time. Also the "I didn't tell anyone to use them" while having comments where you explicitly do just that

Your behaviour almost perfectly matches this super obsessed mega-MAGA dipshit I used to know, he'd go online and pretend to be a mega lefty in weird ways, then screenshot them on his normal accounts and use them as examples of "the insane left"

Is that you, Stan?

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[–] flamingos@feddit.uk 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Seems like an overraction tbh.

A comment explaining drag’s pronouns

It should be drags surely, we don't use an apostrophe for possessive pronouns.

[–] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 9 points 2 weeks ago

We’ve already established that actual language and grammar isn’t a factor here

[–] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 2 weeks ago (34 children)

YDI, you came to a community and weren't contributing to the discussion and immediately decided to pivot the discussion to yourself. In addition your persistent and off-topic discussion about neopronouns could be viewed as trolling by others. It's very similar to what another user DroneRights was doing a while back, though though their posts and comments were much more hostile and aggressive towards others. Yours are less aggressive but still give off the same vibes.

Maybe it was a bit extreme for them to permaban you for that but after dealing with DroneRights I can't say I blame them.

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