Yeah I mostly just lie and something like "I just do it the way my brain does it." Because "I don't want excuses" is all I heard for years growing up, so ok I will not provide any further to you.
this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2024
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A reason is an explanation. An excuse is an attempt to shift responsibility.
Many people will create a disingenuous reason to absolve themselves of responsibility.
For instance, if someone sleeps in and leaves home 15 minutes late in the morning and arrives to work late, they may honestly say, "traffic was terrible on highway 7." And while it's true that if traffic had magically been nice that day they'd have made it on time, the honest reason they're late is because they slept in. The traffic is their excuse.
A reason is an explanation although not all explanations are reasonable.
An excuse is an attempt to justify a reason/explanation.
Excuses are used when the expiation is not reasonable.
Not autistic, but I teach people with mild cases of autism.
The "excuse" I most often hear is that they haven't started doing the work they're supposed to be doing, because they didn't have their computer there.
That's less of a reason and more of an excuse, because the solution is easy for these kids. "Go get the computer". They know they can, and in fact often do.
The real reason is that they'd rather sit and chat with their friends instead of doing work (who doesn't?), and if they were honest about that, I'd appreciate it a lot more.
Often, I guess you could equate an excuse to a "bad reason".
A reason that you could have solved.
I mean, yeah, you're not wrong.
And I do solve these all the time, but it's his computer, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect he'd bring it when he realizes he needs it for his work?
The only reason I call it an "excuse" is because it's not the real reason, or at least it isn't the full reason. We know what the real reason is. He admits as much when we talk as well, and that's fine.
I'm not some super strict and punishing teacher who looks for reasons (or excuses) to punish these kids. Rather, I try to talk to them and understand them, which is why I'm also here in this community :)
CONTINUED From SaphiraGrace' response to @Focal@pawb.social below.....world and society as a whole - you do not possess the required data or facts or lived experience to assign intent or reason to why a student doesn't comply with a task or demand. You just don't. And its not yours to assume.
Please, I know this is long. I am quite aware. (Yes, I will have a TLDR for reference here in a second) but it is fully necessary in response to such vapid ignorance and harmful assumption when it is so clear that you know very little about autism from a lived experience perspective. I get it. I'm not mad at you - just disappointed at how rampant such a take is in our society. So rampant that I have dedicated the rest of my life to educating those like yourself about what being autistic and neurodivergent really is like - and I will likely be doing such until I die.
Please find autistic voices to listen to. Autistic experiences to widen your understandably neurotypically-limited perspective. We need better understanding. We need better levels of empathy and care than we are currently receiving. We need better inclusion in society - not just surface-level, but inclusion that gives us a sense of truly belonging. We need those who don't process and experience life the way we do to still give us a chance at living an authentic life without such a steep risk of burnout and stress that too often culminates in losing our lives to it.
If you would like some resources to learn more, please, DM me (this goes for anyone who has read through this mammoth of a post thus far and are also intrigued to know more). I have bookoos of them that I have collected and acquired through about half a decade or more of research and self-introspection. I am proverbial fount of information and I do not wish to keep all my knowledge and insight to myself - for having an outlet to share it is one of my few ways to safeguard myself from my own burnout and potential demise.
OK HERE WE GO! The TLDR:
From the top:
- Autism is a spectrum, not a gradient.
- Terms like "mild," "moderate," or "severe" autism are harmful and inaccurate.
- Language matters; it affects how autistic individuals are perceived and accommodated.
Spectrum vs. Gradient:
- Autism spectrum: A full color wheel with varying traits.
- Example: Hyper-verbal vs. nonverbal traits represented as different colors.
- Importance of understanding autism's complexity and varied presentations.
Masking:
- Masking: Concealing autistic traits to appear neurotypical.
- Masking does not lessen the impact of being autistic.
- Examples of masking: concealing stimming behaviors due to external pressures.
Utilize a Better Approach to Educating:
- Do not assign reasons or intent without asking autistic individuals.
- Importance of directly communicating with autistic students to understand their actions.
- Examples of how assumptions can lead to misunderstandings and inadequate support.
Personal Experience:
- Autistic individuals may not know or articulate their needs due to lack of self-awareness or language.
- Importance of educators' flexibility and willingness to accommodate neurodivergent students.
- Personal anecdotes to illustrate the challenges and needs of autistic individuals.
Call to Action:
- Greater understanding, empathy, and true inclusion are needed in society.
- Encouragement to learn from autistic voices and lived experiences.
- Offer to provide resources for those interested in learning more about autism.
Hi @Focal@pawb.social. I'm a late identified and DXed #ActuallyAutistic individual here with pretty much an entire autistic/neurodivergent family that has been studying autism from a internal perspective as well as externally through the greater autistic community since my clinical DX back in 2020 - not just someone who teaches kids with "mild autism".
You are wrong in quite a few counts here - let me respectfully explain:
First off let me address the biggest one. This is a bit long but insanely important so bear with me: There is no such thing as "mild", "moderate", or "severe" autism. Language really matters here because the way we speak about autism directly affects how much assistance, acceptances, accommodations and affirmation autistic individuals get within greater society. This externally perceived version of "autism severity" is the number one reason I lived for almost three full decades before I was even seen as autistic. It is very harmful.
Autism is a SPECTRUM. Not a "gradient" as so many individuals perceive it to be. For any artists or artistically inclined readers on here - all of us should know the difference. A gradient is a blending of one or more colors in a linear fashion, your most common representation as black to white with all the varying tonalities of grey in the middle . That is NOT representative of autism whatsoever. It is not a linear condition.
Autism is clinically listed in the DSM5 as Autism **spectrum ** Condition (or "ASC", which is what I personally prefer than "disorder", or "ASD" because Autism is a neurotype, but I will get into that later) for a reason: a spectrum is a full scale color wheel with the entire visible light spectrum we see as color. It contains all primary, secondary and tertiary colors including shades and tints of each from dark to light. It is a much wider range of presentations, symptoms, experiences and expressions.
Instead of a gradient starting at mild and ending at severe - think of autism like a color wheel where each color is separated into its own gradient starting from the center of the color wheel to the outer edge. Each color represents a perceived autistic trait or symptom - not how their autism presents as a whole, but just one of those elements. Lets take being hyper-verbal or nonverbal for instance and assign that particular autism-related trait to the color red. I might be closer to the outer edge of the color wheel in this "red" section but in the blue section, let's say blue represents executive dysfunction and getting tasks done in a neurotypically expected time frame, I might be closer to the center of the color wheel (I struggle a lot with C-PTSD surrounding certain cleaning tasks and also am ADHD which also has its own executive functioning difficulties around task management and completion). THIS is a much more accurate representation of what autism really is and feels like to an #ActuallyAutistic person. You can easily google visual representations of this by searching "Autism Color Wheel" or "Autism Spectrum vs Gradient".
"Then what can I say that denotes how much someone struggles with their autism?" - One word. Masking. Masking is just what it sounds like. Some autistic individuals have lived a life where they are able to mask their presentations and symptoms at different levels - I am one such individual due to my upbringing as a female-socialized girl into woman (which I am using for simplicity despite being more non-binary myself). Masking does not imply that the impact of being autistic is lessened at all however. I still experience the full breadth and width of being autistic in a extremely neurotypicallized world. But I have learned to conceal it to the outside perspective for my own safety. Masking is not always conscious. There is a lot of fawning and people pleasing trauma responses that we simply learn over time unconsciously as a direct result of trial and error.
For instance, when I was little, one of my favorite stims (self-stimulation, or "stimming" is a self regulating response to stress of attempt to focus) was to chew handfuls of hair or the collar of my t-shirts. Obviously - my mother didn't care for that and instead of providing me with an acceptable alternative, she told me to stop it all together. The need to stim didn't leave me - it just went internally where it caused a bunch of psychological stress and harm that would go into overload if I didn't find another way to externalize the need to regulate. I only masked it and made it externally invisible - but it still affected me internally. It is for this reason why although so many autistic individuals know how to mask to the point that they look neurotypical or "less autistic".
I didn't stop being autistic when I internalized my external needs (which can be so inherently psychologically dangerous and causes a lot of depression and self-harmful thoughts to even the point of wishing to be un-alived) I masked my autistic traits so I wouldn't be bullied or reprimanded or singled out anymore. That didn't take my autistic needs or traits away - it just hid them from external view. I am just as autistic as I was when I was little, I just have learned strategies to cope and get by with my difficulties in public - but behind closed doors I still exhibit "little girl" stims and challenges. I still have meltdowns. I still have times of situational mutism and go non-verbal. I still flail and flap my arms when I am emotionally dysregulated.
Ok, with that out of the way: respectfully yet again (my aim is to educate; not hound on you despite the length of this post - that's just because this stuff isn't super simple to cover and requires a bit of clarification before going on to my next point:
Please, don't ever assign "real reasons" without first speaking to your autistic student. As you might have surmised above (if you even read this far. I promise I will do a TLDR at the end); from an external perspective: you will NEVER fully know the reason for why an autistic individual does something unless you ASK THEM. Unfortunately, depending on the level of self-awareness and internal discovery work the autistic individual in question has done - they might not rightfully know. Or - they might not yet have the language to verbally express what they know, or might have not yet heard their own lived experiences echoed in someone else's account of a similar situation. I know I didn't. I had no idea about half of the autistic spectrum-y things I do or need until I heard it voiced from another autistic. I am still learning all the ways my neurological wiring affects me (oh yea: "Neurotype" is how someone is neurologically wired - think different types of operating systems like MAC vs PC or Apple vs Windows. "Neurotypical" is like one, "Neurodivergent" is like the other; they still function - just very differently from one another. But if you try to open a program built for one in the other - it just doesn't work).
Remember assuming reasons or intent for anyone only makes an ASS out of U and ME. Instead - just like you should with any human that deserves respect (which should be all of them if you are a decent person) you should ask your students why they are doing whatever is upsetting you or seems to be "non compliant". They might not even know - but it does not give you any right to assign intent or reason for what they are doing. That is just poor educatorship . Instead, do some more research and make an inferred hypothesis and then CHECK with your students by **asking ** them if u are getting close to what might be going on.
Personally; my hypothesis to the above scenario in your comment is that the verbal excuse they have given you is a default excuse they have learned to give out of ignorance to the real reason they either might not know or might not know how to verbalize what is actually going on in a way that would be palatable to your expectations. They probably also know that you are more likely to not listen to their actual explanation and deem you too reactive to even grace you with a more eloquently verbalized actual reason - such as executive dysfunction or trauma responses which are both reasonable explanations for neurodivergent individuals and deserve assessment and accommodation for the task if needed. If a student of yours is having executive functioning difficulties with an assigned task - it is up to you as their educator to figure out why they are by speaking to them and come up with an accommodation or provide them with either mental or physical tools to better do the task requested.
That is not a failure on them; that is a failure fully on you - as being an educator is much more than just telling people to do things and expecting them to do them without error or issue. Being an educator is about being flexible to your students needs -regardless of neurotype or invisible disability (or physical disability for that matter). If I were in your shoes; I would do my damnedest to learn how to better accommodate and assist differently abled and differently neurologically wired individuals and stop assigning intent and reason to why you are having challenges teaching these individuals.
"Excuse vs Explanation" is a huge topic of mine that I love to educate on - but frankly, without the above groundwork to precede it there is no way to explain and educate you. If you have gotten this far I will grant you this: Excuses are often perceived as "lazy" reasons why someone wont do something. It assumes that there is no logical reason - externally or internally - for someone to not comply with a task. It assumes incompetence, it assumes intent on not doing the task out of sheer insolence and insubordination. Very rarely is this actually the case.
If you have zero idea the struggles your students face as neurodivergent individuals - not just in your classroom, but in the world and society
I really appreciate the way you describe autism more as a colour wheel than a gradient. I think that's a very good visual for me to understand. I'm a bit unsure about the language I'm supposed to use when this kid in particular is so high functioning though. If we're talking about a color wheel here, would it be fair to say he's got a fairly desaturated form of autism then? Or that his color mostly blends in with the rest of the neurotypical class?
Or is it all just "masking"? How does autistic type masking differ from the masking everyone has to do just to fit into society at all?
To address some of your concerns here, I believe I've been somewhat misunderstood here and you've assumed something about me that isn't true. I do talk to these kids all the time. It's my job to talk to them and to understand them, and I do it with joy :)
This is not an assumption with the kid. I'm asking them and digging a bit deeper, and the kid tells me that he didn't have his computer there.
I ask him if he brought it to school, and he did. It just wasn't in front of him and he tells me he was more interested in the conversation he had with his classmate instead. That's fine, that's not something I get annoyed with, I just go "alright, chop chop. Talk while you work, and you'll be good" and the situation is solved.
When I only get "the PC isn't here", and we've been through this song and dance many a time before, then I do get a little exasperated, though not outwards, and I am flexible in the whole ordeal.
There's a reason I put "excuse" in quotation marks in my original post here. It's a bad reason, or at least not the full reason. That's what the original question was about, too.
So I understand that you're very, very passionate about this topic, and I get that you try to keep it respectful as well, but I will add that I also definitely feel mischaracterized here, and that makes the message a lot harder to accept for me (though I do agree with your points here and I also appreciate your color wheel explanation).
I basically feel scolded for something I didn't do. Even if you might not mean to, it feels like you're calling me a failure as an educator, and I can guess most people who had a teacher like that didn't learn a lot from them.
(got put in wrong place. Edited and put in correct place for proper response)
I always viewed the difference as intent and not mutually exclusive. reason explains your thought process, actions, and events. Excuse are reasons presented in a manor meant to shift responsibility.
Sounds like a rigged game: if someone wants to feel like the blame is being shifted.
What good is blame anyway if you want to fix the problem in the first place? I'll never get it. It feels primally cathartic to blame a person, but it fixes the issues to find the reason.
The mistake here is that the person explaining is interested in things like being correct or promoting efficiency while the adversary is only interested in hierarchy and dominating the explainer within their social context. That's the miscommunication happening.
I think the implication is that a reason is out of your control, while an excuse is of your own doing.
Like say you slept in and were late for work. If you slept in because of a medical condition or the power went out and your alarm didn't go off, it's a reason. If you slept in because you stayed up too late or forgot to set your alarm, it's an excuse.
Not that the two terms aren't interchangable in a lot of cases.
I think a reason involves reason~ing~. If I'm interrogating someone about a situation like this, I want to know the why of the actions. People who say "stop giving me excuses" are just assholes, and didn't want a reason anyway.
I think people who are always late and always giving excuses for lateness are the assholes. Sort yourself out and turn up on time. Unless there's a reason of course, but I can't think of a good reason to be consistently late.
Considering the person in the tweet posing the initial question is neurodivergent, and time blindness is a symptom of many forms of neurodivergence, I feel like being late is a poor example.
I'm late because my condition fundamentally does not allow me to process the passage of time properly.
For most people that would sound like an excuse. I understand that.
I set multiple alarms, not just to wake up, but I have an alarm to tell me I need to get in the shower, out of the shower, an alarm that tells me if I'm not currently eating breakfast I need to skip breakfast or I'll be late, an alarm that tells me to leave the house, and another alarm to actually leave the house regardless of if I can't find my keys, go now or you'll be late, call a locksmith later (because you left them in the laundry sink you idiot, that's why the dirty towels are at the front door somehow)
I've managed to avoid being late by being disgustingly early to everything instead.
So when I am late, I'm already feeling like the worst possible human there is, how am I so completely useless?
And "I somehow lost track of time despite having a countdown timer audibly playing in my headphones from the moment I woke up to the moment I got here" is not a valid reason in the eyes of people who have never experienced time blindness, so they pile up more shame on top of my guilt.
My partner and I were standing in the kitchen planning meals and I asked him what day a certain event was because I could have sworn it was "a Monday 20-something" he tells me it's "Saturday November 23rd" he said, "oh that's next month" I replied, I went to write it in my diary, but it was already written in my diary.
Later I got ready for bed, I set my alarm nice and early for the big day, and woke up today on the Monday 28th of October, started getting ready and asked my partner why he was sleeping in and he says "sleeping in for what? What are we doing so early today?" to which I reply "the event! ...wait ... That's in November, why did I think it was today?" and went back to bed.
I got home from work this afternoon, put my bag down and suddenly and immediately started panicking "oh fuck, I forgot to attend that event today!" and I pull out my phone to text someone and remember it's not until November.
I'm going to keep doing this until the 23rd of November, when I'm inevitably going to have somehow forgotten the event entirely and my partner will wake me up asking if I'm ready to go and I'll say "go where? .... Wait there's some important I'm doing, don't tell me"
I guess my personal definition of excuse vs reason. An excuse is an attempt to get out of the consequences of what happened, a reason is an exploration of the factors that lead up to the issue, and does not absolve me of responsibility or accountability.
To avoid being late in the future, I have to understand the reason I was late, otherwise how can I fix a problem I don't understand.
In my case the root problem is unfixable, I can only ever work to mitigate the impact, and that's never going to work 100% of the time. So it's tricky because it's not an excuse, I know I'm making things harder for other people with my behaviour and I don't expect to face zero consequences for my actions, but I can't exactly fix it or guarantee it won't happen again because I know it will, so I'm not going to make false promises about doing better, I'm already doing the best I know how, trying to guilt me does nothing, I'm already at max capacity guilt because I don't know how else to address this problem and it feels like my fault.
That sounds reasonable. Why would I have an issue with this person being late? I wouldn't. It's a great example of having a reason.
But I'm not psychic, nor am I a doctor of any kind, so if you expect me to make allowances without telling me what allowances you need then unfortunately you're out of luck.
If you expect me to make allowances for people incase they're ND then also you're out of luck. I'm going to ask you why you're late, I'm going to react to what you told me - anything you haven't told me is unknown.
That some people want to paint me as unreasonable because I want people to be on time, unless they have a good reason not to be, is naive and immature.
I feel this in my soul. I set up to four alarms (for weekday mornings.) The first alarm is in case I wake up feeling sick (since I’d need to tell work at least 2 hours in advance.) The next is to wake me in case I went back to sleep after the first alarm. Then I have a third alarm, which is my “last chance to shower” alarm. Finally, the fourth alarm is for when it’s time to actually go out the door.
Ideally, I turn them all off before they start, because I’m having a good morning and manage to be on top of everything. But I can’t count on that happening every day and, like you, I feel absolutely crushed and useless if I fail to arrive somewhere on time.
Now, keeping track of time when at work is a whole ‘nother beast. We don’t even have clocks on our walls…
If I'm not concerned with your reasoning, I'm not going to ask, then tell you to stop making excuses. If you don't want a reason, fine. That's the whole point, the people who say "why were you late?" then dismiss everything as excuses, not answers to the question just asked. If you don't want to know, fine, don't ask, move on.
Sort yourself out and turn up on time. Unless there’s a reason of course, but I can’t think of a good reason to be consistently late.
The reason why I would be late for you is that you're thoroughly unpleasant and I don't want to be around you. I hope you find that a 'good reason'.
That's how friendship works and I'm fine with it. Not everyone has to be friends.
If you work for me though, you work on the principle that you will always do your best effort to turn up on time - and if you can't even manage that then I'm not interested in you being part of my team and so we'll be parting ways. This kind of thing tends to be surfaced during the interview stage and if it didn't it'd surface in the first few months and so one of us would choose to terminate the contract. That's also fine; you don't have to like the people you work with and you don't have to work with people you don't like.
I see no problems with the fact that our values are different.
It sounds like you wont listen to reason, if you dont understand or can't experience a situation yourself.
That means you can only work with or bw friends with people like you. That's a very small window of tolerance.
I think you're wrong.
I specifically gave an example of when I would listen to reason.
Being late because you can't be fucked to get out of bed is a laziness problem, and someone trying to make it my problem (by being late) is inconsiderate at best. Not interested.
Being late because of an event outside of your ability to predict or control is reasonable.
If you can't tell the difference then, again, that's your problem and you're right I don't want to work with or be friends with you.
They practice this crap in the mirror to make themselves sound cool and be a bully.
I think this person asking you is really trying to tell you you did something the wrong way, but in a less direct manner, because directness is considered "rude" in some cultures.
So, preface - not neurotypical, but I dont really struggle with this sort of thing personally. At least I think so lol.
An excuse is a reason. One dictionary definition is "a reason that you give to explain why you did something wrong." When you have done something wrong, people don't usually want the reasons. They want contrition, or help resolving it. Also note another dictionary definition - "a false reason that you give to explain why you do something." There is a perception that any reason given after doing something wrong may well be false, intended to deflect blame rather than genuinely explain. In general, there are times when it is appropriate to explain, and times when it is not.
It's frustrating that someone would directly ask why you did something while not wanting an answer, but when people are stressed or frustrated - i.e. when something has gone wrong - they do sometimes just lash out with questions designed to accuse rather than to elicit an actual answer. The question: "why did you do it this way", from someone who is angry, might really mean: "I'm angry with you because I can't fathom what reason you could possibly have for doing it this way, now that it has gone wrong." The solution isn't to provide that answer, it's to resolve whatever the problem is and let them calm down. There may come a point when explaining the reason is appropriate later.
Outside the specific context of the question - in general, if something bad happens as a result of your actions, explaining them isn't the first thing you should do. First apologise, then try to resolve whatever the problem is. You can talk reasons later, it definitely can be helpful to understand how things went wrong... But only if you have the intention of trying to avoid it in the future. If you come off as trying to deflect blame... That's going to be perceived as an excuse. Accept the blame first, and your reasons will be more likely accepted as an attempt to avoid future problems.
It's an excuse when they're mad and a reason when they're not
Or if it's a shit reason.
Note: all reasons are shit reasons if the person is mad at you.
As a child this made me just reply "I don't know" to those types of questions, since the result was always the same.
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The way I use those words:
A reason is a cause for an event or a thought process that caused a decision.
An excuse is one of:
- a true reason why a person did a bad thing
- an explanation (true or false) why the cause of events or decisions was somebody else’s actions, not the speaker’s actions
- an explanation (true or false) pretending to be a reason, that isn’t actually the true cause of the event or decision
If I said, “don’t give me any of your excuses” to somebody, I would be meaning all of:
- something bad happened and I think it’s your fault
- I want you to agree with me that it’s your fault and accept blame
- I think you have a pattern of not seeing (or not admitting) that your actions cause bad things, and that’s happening again now
This is a bunch of very negative stuff to be meaning. It could be whoever said that is an asshole, blind, or unfair. If they treat everybody with negative shit like this that’s likely and there’s just no winning with such a person.
I actually have said stuff like “don’t give me excuses” to my kids. I think I’m not an asshole. When I said it, I thought my kid was flailing about doing dumb shit without thinking. What I meant for my kid was, “I want for you to start thinking about how a chain of events fits together, and I want you to accept you have the ability and the responsibility to see a bad outcome forming, and to take actions to make a better outcome instead.”
“I want for you to start thinking about how a chain of events fits together, and I want you to accept you have the ability and the responsibility to see a bad outcome forming, and to take actions to make a better outcome instead.”
Have you considered just telling them that? You're possibly obfuscating an important lesson for them by using a cultural phrase, and it's not uncommon for kids to learn the wrong lesson out of it.
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