this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2024
311 points (92.6% liked)

Games

32670 readers
679 users here now

Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.

Weekly Threads:

What Are You Playing?

The Weekly Discussion Topic

Rules:

  1. Submissions have to be related to games

  2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil

  3. No excessive self-promotion

  4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts

  5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW

  6. No linking to piracy

More information about the community rules can be found here.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I’m really frustrated with how almost every new game these days is being forced into this “live service” model. It seems like no matter what type of game you want to play—whether it’s an RPG, shooter, or even something traditionally single-player—you’re stuck with always-online requirements. And for what? It adds nothing to the experience for most players and, if anything, it makes the game worse.

Take Fallout 76, for example. You can’t play it offline, period. You’re expected to pay $100 a year for a subscription to play by yourself, but even then, you’re still online, and any slight hiccup in your internet connection—or their terrible servers—means you get kicked off. It’s absurd. Fallout has always been a solo game experience, but now we’re locked into an online system no one wanted. Who actually benefits from this? Not the players, that’s for sure.

Another perfect example is Once Human. This is a game that could have been incredible, but instead, it’s trapped in the live service model from the start. I’m sitting there playing, and there’s no one around. So why am I online? Why can’t I just enjoy the game offline? It’s not like I’m asking to avoid multiplayer altogether—just give players the option! If I want to jump into a server and play with others, fine. But the fact that I’m forced to connect even for big chunks of the game that should be playable offline just feels unnecessary.

One of the worst offenders in recent memory is Temtem. It’s like they tried to make a multiplayer Pokémon and failed miserably. The game is fully online, yet it’s a ghost town. Steam shows fewer than 100 players on at any given time, but they still force everyone to play online. And one day, the servers will go offline entirely, and what happens to your game then? It’s completely gone, and so is your money. It feels like a scam.

The worst part is, nobody seems to be fighting against this trend except for the EU. They’re already working on passing laws that would require games to be playable offline if the servers get shut down. Imagine that! A game company actually having to care about whether you can play the game you paid for after it’s abandoned. It’s crazy to me that this isn’t already standard everywhere. The fact that we even need a law to ensure you can still enjoy your purchase after the servers are gone is telling.

It’s just sad to see so many great games ruined by forced online connectivity. Live service works for some titles, but not everything needs to be connected 24/7. Developers need to wake up and realize that players want the choice, not a one-size-fits-all approach that makes everything worse in the long run.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] knatschus@discuss.tchncs.de 95 points 1 month ago (14 children)

Almost every game is a indie game at this time, stop looking for big capital games

[–] mesamunefire@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Itch.io has some great games. Steam has an entire section. Totally agree with you.

I just got Good Boy Galaxy. Awesome game.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (13 replies)
[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 50 points 1 month ago

There are dozens of other very good games for every one live service. Find some you like and play them.

[–] Grumpydaddy@lemmy.world 45 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I vote with my wallet. I don't buy games that have scummy conditions or requirements. There are too many other choices out there to justify supporting companies who treat their customers poorly.

[–] r00ty@kbin.life 3 points 1 month ago

This is the answer. If you don't like live service don't buy live service games. If the majority have the same opinion there won't be profit in it.

Games publishers are businesses and they want to make money.

Now in reality I think they make more money from those that are buying microtransactions and so long as that makes them more money than selling a plain single player game, it's a no brainer they'll keep making the.

[–] Lojcs@lemm.ee 34 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Plenty of new popular singleplayer releases: https://steamdb.info/stats/gameratings/2024/?min_price=0.01&min_rating=85&displayOnly=Game&category=2&sort=followers_desc

Edit:

If you want less popular games take these (collected from YouTube, !tycoon@lemmy.world , steam etc):
Wild Bastards - roguelike strategy fps
Arco - turn based rpg
Nova Drift - bullet hell roguelike
Scorchlands - city builder
Linkito - puzzle game
SCHİM - casual platformer
Bō - 2d platformer metroidvania
TerraScape - puzzle city builder
Gestalt - retro rpg metroidvania
GHOSTWARE - boomer shooter
Selaco - boomer shooter
Nine Sols - metroidvania
Reus 2 - God game
The Rogue Prince of Persia - roguelite
Galacticare - hospital tycoon
Synergy - puzzle god game
Paper Trail - puzzle
MULLET MADJACK - boomer shooter
Gatekeeper - roguelike
Ingression - 2d portal platformer
ZAU - metroidvania
Laysaria - city builder
Children of the Sun - puzzle sniper
Pepper Grinder - 2d platformer with dragon hills like mechanic
Death of a Wish - 2d spectacle fighter
Thaumaturge - rpg
Penny's Big Breakaway - 3d platformer
Please, Touch The Artwork 2 - casual
20 Small Mazes - casual puzzle
Islands of Insight - mmo puzzle (can offline)
Banishers - rpg
Oblivion Override - rougelike
Anomaly Agent - roguelike
New Cycle - city builder

If you want AAA/AA games from previous years, I can recommend:
Hellblade 1 - action adventure
Sleeping Dogs - gtalike
Chorus - space dogfighter

Also check out !patientgamers@sh.itjust.works , someone posts nice old games every other day there

Edit 2:

Plucky Squire - 2d+3d platformer
Inkulinati - turn based strategy

[–] Buttflapper@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Best comment so far wow. Didn't even know this was a thing

[–] Lojcs@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

Check the edit :)

[–] yamanii@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Didn't know you could put so many filters to search for games over at steamdb, thanks for the link.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 29 points 1 month ago

I am fighting this trend by not buying those games. Online connection for single player means I don't buy it. Unnecessary third-party account means I don't buy it. Packing a rootkit installer means I don't buy it.

[–] kboy101222@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Why'd you bring up tem tem specifically? It's supposed to be "Pokemon but an MMO". That's the entire appeal. I had Pokemon loving friends that played it at launch and loved it dearly. It's sad that it's died, but if you want a single player version of tem tem, there's about 22 Pokemon games according to Bulbapedia. Go play one of those.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

And even more indie clones like Monster Crown if that's your thing.

[–] Zahille7@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Hell, even Palworld can scratch that itch a bit.

[–] bbb@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 month ago (5 children)

I'm confused. Are you running out of games to play? Do you only play on console or something?

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] manmachine@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago
[–] 667@lemmy.radio 20 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Planned obsolescence hidden behind a “feature”.

In ten years, when they want to pull the plug on this game, they will cite dwindling users and “exorbitant” per-user maintenance costs.

They don’t want playable legacies. They want something they can leverage for nostalgia marketing in 20 years, and if you break out the original game, they won’t make any money. Production companies want you to buy what they are offering today, because it pays for new yachts.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

In ten years? If I had to guess the average life span of live services games I'd say about 18 months. Heavily skewed by the survivors. The shortest lived one only worked for 13 days. Only the very popular ones survive past 5 years and there are a handful of 10 plus. I know it's hard to believe, the average gamer is oblivious to how over saturated the videogames market is. Despite executive's delusions, time and money are actually finite. Not all games can demand all of it, at the same time.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 month ago

yeah, I didn't get into any live play games, and now I'm going to continue not getting into them.

be the change you want to see.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Go for smaller studios and indies. Go for the nerd shit, too. Satisfactory just came out of early access, 1.0 is out, it does have multiplayer components but they do not host servers; you can open your own save file for friends to join or you can run your own dedicated server.

Factorio is launching a HUGE expansion pretty imminently.

Subnautica 2 is in the works (Below Zero is now officially an expansion pack of Subnautica 1).

Go play a game called Perfect Vermin. Do not look up anything about it just go play it.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] SoupBrick@yiffit.net 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] rikudou@lemmings.world 16 points 1 month ago

Step 1: Buy only from GOG
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit

[–] Prox@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

We're all sick of live service games, and that's why new (copycat) games are failing so hard. Look at XDefinant, Concord, etc.

Plenty of people have one or two live service games that they like/play, and the sustained success of those titles like Fortnite, Destiny, Apex Legends, Diablo IV is why we keep seeing so many clones and attempts to hit the next gold vein. But the creators of those copycat titles fail to capture the real source of others' success; great gameplay.

[–] yamanii@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Diablo IV is proof that a strong nostalgia brand is more powerful than a good game like Path of Exile, game spent the first year just fixing itself like everyone bought an alpha access.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

I genuinely fault gamers for some of this too, though.

There's a very small indie game out called "Liar's Bar". It's simple and fun. But, there were still people in forums savagely complaining that the game's pointless XP system didn't save correctly after a match - and that it didn't have skins/emotes to earn for investing time into it.

There's also MP games I play that I find fun, where I see popular, level-headed streamers complain that there's been "nothing new" in its past two months. For most players, this wouldn't even matter because they're not able to play it nearly as often.

Then there's games like Back 4 Blood, the late-grown attempt to reinvigorate Left 4 Dead's magic. For those who don't know; the game is still fully playable right now. It's still fun. The developers just don't add more to it anymore. Yet, as soon as they made this announcement that they were moving on to other games, there were conclusive, prophetic statements out about "Why Back 4 Blood DIED" as though the game is completely gone.

It's wrong to claim that publishers moved to the constant-update, live-service model forcefully in their own decision-making vacuum. People (maybe not even the people in this thread) asked for this.

[–] toasteecup@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

I can understand the frustration but I don't see that as much when I'm playing more indie games. Are you playing more quintuple a titles, if so have you considered going for more independent stuff instead? I could give some recommendations

[–] SARGE@startrek.website 11 points 1 month ago

I haven't played a live service game since Destiny 2 decided to completely remove all the shit I paid for, then lock everything new behind even more pay walls.

I've been playing dozens of games since then. It's not hard to find games that aren't live service and likely won't be touched outside of stability and a couple QoL things here and there.

I'm all for laws requiring all games to be playable offline, and without any sort of bullshit "online activation". I paid for a game, I want to play the game without having to download shit first. I want to play the game whether my hanky-ass internet connection is stable or even nonexistent today. I want to be able to use the thing I paid for without having to jump through extra hoops, no matter how large or "on the ground" the hoop is. It's still a hoop.

[–] scala@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 month ago

Easy solution don't buy them. Sail the seas if you must play it.

[–] proceduralnightshade@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I wish they would stop releasing updates and DLC for Stellaris, so the modders have a version they can tinker with.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

While I get where you're coming from, Fallout 76 was a bad example, you don't need a subscription to play (unless your preferred system of choice asks you for it regardless of the game you play) and it is intended to be a multiplayer first game, you might not like it, but it is not an example of what you're complaining anymore than Elder Scrolls Online or World of Warcraft (which actually has a subscription model).

And the answer is simple, don't buy those games, there are thousands of excellent single player games, if always online games start to fail companies will stop doing it, vote with your wallet. I recommend taking a look at indie games, there are several excellent games and almost assuredly they don't have DRM, or at least not always online ones.

[–] MasterBuilder@lemmy.one 5 points 1 month ago

I left the pc gaming scene about 20 years ago and only came bacj this year. I found my steam credentials from when they were initially seeking players and revived my account (I closed my email on the account back in 2009, so i couldn't recover).

I've mostly been playing vSkyrim, BG 3, and a few emulated Zelda games. I finally ordered a new gaming laptop because Cyberpunk 2077 is hard to rrad on the Deck, even on a 50" tv on hi-res.

All that is just so you all know where I'm coming from, i am both a newb and a veteran!

From a business standpoint, looking ant it form the non-gaming financial point of view, the move to online-only makes very compelling sense.

It fully implements the licensing model, gives them total control over the property, enables them to generate reports that accurately identify trndsvin user populations, pinpoint steady revenue figures, and they can kill the game as soon as it isn't valuable to them anymore, and they don't have to worry about losing revenue from sharing, passing the copy to an otherwise paying customer for free, or a significant pirtiin of piracy loss.

Itvis the end state of the "we are mearly licensing it to you until such time as we decide ee want it back" model.

It sucks, and if i can know it is online only before buying, i will pass. All of us should. Revenue is king to them, and if they lose even a little, they will try something else.

[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

We all are, but people keep paying them money. It won't stop until people get their heads out of their asses and stop doing that. Kind of like how microtransactions won't go away because whales won't stop shoveling dump trucks of money at mobile games.

[–] B0NK3RS@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It's easy to avoid the worst offenders. Also "live service" is a very broad term and covers a lot.

One aspect that I really don't like is when games just seem to hang on too long with updates and/or DLC. Be proud to finish the game and move on to something new (looking at you The Long Dark...)

[–] yamanii@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

I liked that No Man's Sky basically became an online space game with the yearly updates, and look at that, it still has an offline mode! It's not impossible at all.

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago

You can support games like Inquisitor martyr that shut the servers down, but patched the game first to allow you to pick any season to play offline.

[–] Nexy@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 month ago

Play niche genres like shmups

[–] Tygr@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Yeah, I’m an offline RPG gamer and this generation is leaving me behind. Thankfully there’s still some great options like Zelda, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy. But I feel our options are slimming down.

load more comments
view more: next ›