this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 120 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Explanation: Alan Turing was a mathematician and computer scientist whose revolutionary work during WW2 helped the British shorten the war considerably by breaking (and thus having access to) Nazi coded messages.

A little over half a decade after the war, a chance break-in at his house led to him accidentally incriminating himself - by admitting to the presence of his boyfriend. This being the 1950s UK, the courts gave him a choice for the horrific crime of homosexuality - chemical castration, or several months in prison. Turing considered that he would not last in prison, and opted for the chemical treatment. Some time later, he bit into an apple laced with cyanide and died, which many consider to be an act of suicide (though it is still disputed, some believe it was genuinely an accident).

[–] GoosLife@lemmy.world 75 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Wait a second, Alan Turing was a queer icon? I had no idea.

I cannot fathom how anyone can allow people to be punished for loving who they love, in a consenting relationship between two adults. What a terrible and tragic story. Fuck anyone who wants to punish people for doing something that doesn't hurt anyone; for doing something that in fact is literally the direct opposite of hurting anyone. Like, fuck them to the core, and not in any nice way.

[–] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 53 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Wait a second, Alan Turing was a queer icon?

Yeah. He's a queer icon, and a god among humans to computer science fans.

It breaks my heart that he didn't get to see the current era of queer federated computing. If there's any kind of after-life, Alan has got to be rooting for the Fediverse.

I wouldn't say that he's a well-known queer icon, but well-known enough that there's been an enduring myth that the early Apple icon was a reference to him - the apple with a bite taken out of it and colored like a rainbow. However, the designers have said that they had no idea at the time and it was purely coincidence.

[–] gedhrel@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

I'm not sure about that (the icon bit). I've gay friends who have been surprised that Turing was gay - personally I knew about it since I knew about Turing, but I was a nerd who was interested in the theory of computation. It's only relative recently (with the popularity of unbelievably lousy character-assassination like "the Imitation Game"*) that he's been more in the general public eye, I think.

  • This is a shit film that represents the worse of pandering, and casts Turing in an appallingly poor light, whilst leaning into the "autistic savant" trope hard. It's abysmal.
[–] Pieresqi@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Apple laced with cyanide is an accident ??

Damm what a wild times. I would though, with my quite non-normal, reasoning capabilities it would have been done intentionally to murder someone....

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 38 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Poor storage of laboratory chemicals is the alternative explanation. While plausible, suicide seems more likely to my eyes.

[–] gedhrel@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The story is at least semi-plausible, but Turing also still had friends in the right places (not enough to dig him out of the hole he got himself into with the local plod*) and there was a strong social taboo around suicide.

(* At the time there was good reason to believe that the end of the outlawing of homosexuality was just around the corner, so offering a genuine explanation was not necessarily Turing acting as such a naif as is often portrayed.)

[–] Successful_Try543 7 points 1 month ago

Since Snow White, we all know this wasn't an accident.

[–] luves2spooge@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Some have speculated that it's the origin of the Apple logo but Jobs confirmed it wasn't.

[–] gedhrel@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

"Almost singlehandedly" is way off the mark. Welchman, Tutte - the place was filled with eccentric geniuses; it was the success of management as much as the individual that Bletchley saw so much success.

("The story of Hut 6" is a good read on the subject. What comes across was that success was down to serendipity as well as hard work, and some remarkably enlightened leadership.)

It's worth mentioning that German cryptologists had some considerable success cracking British codes as well, notably including the cyphers the Admiralty used to communicate with merchant ships in convoys during the first half of the war. This was a major factor behind Britain nearly losing the Battle of the Atlantic before they even had a chance to participate in the re-invasion of continental Europe in 1944.

[–] Mildren@lemmy.world 63 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Not to disregard Turing here as I believe he is still one of the greats of computing, but the idea that he "Almost Singlehandedly" did anything is to the discredit of the thousands of workers at Bletchley Park alongside him, and the Polish cryptographers who initially cracked several versions of Enigma in the 1930s and went on to teach the Bletchley how they did it.

[–] PlexSheep@infosec.pub 4 points 1 month ago

Not to mention, the soldiers

[–] VinnyDaCat@lemmy.world 44 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Turing aside, the world simply treated gay people horribly altogether.

Gay men were victims of the holocaust much like many other groups but Germany wouldn't recognize this until 4 decades later in the 1980s. We know what the British did to Turing but the U.S. acted similarly due to the Lavender Scare which compared gay people to communists and enacted its own witch hunts for them.

[–] Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I remember reading somewhere that upon liberation from concentration camps, many gay individuals were simply transferred to prisons from their home country for the crime of being gay. The Nazis were terrifyingly effective in branding exactly what kind of "undesirable" you were:

Image source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

im sorry asocial? What the fuck does this mean in the context of the nazis? Were people who didn't actively socialize considered a threat somehow?

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Asocial was a very broad term - anyone they thought was not sufficiently contributing to society, essentially.

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

ok so basically "slackers" were considered to be asocial and then stuffed into the gulags, fascinating.

[–] orrk@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

yes, Remember Nazi rhetoric didn't hate the Polish, the Jewish, the Communist etc... without having an easily agreed upon base of reasons as to why you should hate them. why do you think people have called Republican rhetoric genocidal? because they are further along to the "justifying the camps" than many people realize, they know the Nazis did bad things, but very few people know what led up to and allowed the Nazis to do those bad things.

[–] KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 month ago (4 children)

yeah, current republican sentiment is problematic. It's an interesting and really hard problem to deal with, for multiple reasons. Because on one hand it's a frogs in a boiling pot problem, but on the other it's also really hard to do anything about because they just reverse anything you throw at them, and pretend you're the one being the nazi, not them.

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[–] sgbrain7@lemm.ee 34 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's why I always feel a little sad whenever he comes up in conversation. He could've done more cool shit.

[–] Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago

The whole of the UK could have been a tech powerhouse if they didn't screw over Turing and send the women of Bletchley Park back into the kitchen.

[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

Can we stop the false notion that he did it on his own? It's just not true. Not even close.

Arne Beurling however DID single-handedly Crack a T52 in 2 weeks with nothing but pen and paper.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arne_Beurling

[–] ReCursing@lemmings.world 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

He was undeniably brilliant, and was instrumental in both the development of the Bombe (which broke the Enigma code), and the programming of Colossus (which broke... the other code the Germans used of which I can't remember the name). Plus he was instrumental in the first steps of both computer science in general and artifical intelligence in particular. He deserves the plaudits.

But so do a lot of other people who worked at Bletchly park (if you get the chance, go there, it's great) and elsewhere.

[–] Atomic@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago

He sure was brilliant. And what was done to him is from today's standpoint barbaric, but the notion that he alone was responsible for breaking the codes is a terrible falsehood that needs to die.

I think we can celebrate his brilliancy without discrediting everyone else that worked on the project. There's just no need to add lies such as "single handedly".

[–] steeznson@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

He was singularly brilliant in coming up with the Turing Machine and contributing towards the Church Turing Thesis which are the foundations of all computer science. It is true that he did not crack enigma by himself but his scientific contributions shouldn’t be understated.

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[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 26 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

“And Türing answered another,” Rudy said.

“Who’s that?”

“It’s me,” Alan said. “But Rudy’s joking. ‘Turing’ doesn’t really have an umlaut in it.”

“He’s going to have an umlaut in him later tonight,” Rudy said, looking at Alan in a way that, in retrospect, years later, Lawrence would understand to have been smoldering.”

I couldn't even believe Neal Stephenson wrote that.

And yeah, Alan Turing was awesome and he was treated horribly.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

The Cryptonomicon is such a good book. I'm pretty sure I've read it 30 times now.

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[–] Zementid@feddit.nl 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Conservatives would still do this, if it would still be legal.... just saying.

Edit: Stroke avoided ;-)

[–] HereIAm@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Could you hold put your arms for 30 seconds please? Just need to check for a stroke.

[–] Zementid@feddit.nl 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Damn you are right... what the heck?

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago (6 children)

I just recently watched The Imitation Game for the first time. I dunno how accurate it is, but it was an amazing performance by Cumberbatch.

[–] gedhrel@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Historically speaking it's a lazy character assassination.

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] racemaniac@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

By the character assassination he probably means he's depicted as an asocial eccentric genious, while by all accounts he was a fairly normal charming person.

And regarding his accomplishments, the movie is also completely wrong. His Enigma decoding work was of course very valuable, but as others mentioned here heavily based on earlier polish efforts, and teamwork, not just him. It's also portrayed as an early computer, and is then said that he was at the basis of modern computers. This is bullshit, that device was in no way close to modern computers, and he was at the forefront of theoretical computer science. Look up the turing machine which is a theoretical device that can compute anything an actual computer can compute, but has very simple properties making scientific/mathematical analysis of what computation is, what is computable, ... possible. Which is an incredible achievement, would be nice if they mentioned that in the movie...

(and also the entire story is just fantasy around the work that happened for enigma. His nemesis in the movie that was against building the machine also never existed etc...)

The only thing truthful about the movie is "There was a gay computer scientist named Alan Turing that played an important role in decoding the enigma encoded messages during the second world war", and all the rest is just invented drama that's not in any way based on reality. He wasn't some autistic genius, there was no nemesis, he didn't invent computers, nor was the enigma decoding device related to computers, etc...

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[–] racemaniac@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago

It completely misses the mark on what he actually accomplished.

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[–] BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago

He wasn't the first person who was a national hero of great Britain, and then driven to suicide for the same reasons.

[–] niktemadur@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago

You know... what they call "the good ol' days" they wax nostalgic about.

[–] MadBob@feddit.nl 20 points 1 month ago (2 children)

At least the queen forgave him for it eighty years later or something.

[–] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 21 points 1 month ago (3 children)

There was nothing to forgive. And it was too late for her to beg his forgiveness.

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[–] Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 4 points 1 month ago

He was pardoned 9 years ago...an entire lifetime after his death...

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It wasn't just the British system it was just the culture at the time for everywhere. The United States was far further behind the times at that point in time Britain.

Segregation was still a thing in the 1940s to the point at which American soldiers coming to the UK had to have lessons in how not to be racist. Gay rights weren't even on anyone's radar back then.

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