I've had my current ICE vehicle for 15 years and it hasn't given me any problems yet. With any luck I can get another ten years out of it. Im not sold on the reliability of EVs yet, but hopefully by the time my vehicle dies reliability won't be an issue any longer.
this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2024
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“Actually the battery will probably lose the exact amount every year, and nothing will ever go wrong with any parts of it, and also they’ll also break the rest of the car at the same rate as a gas car, which is 20 years, which we’re going to call 15 years. Which means in 12 years the car will be useless, but the battery will still be at 80%. MATHS.”
Fucking. What.
Nope. My car had not mechanical defects at all but cost $23k to repair when the battery failed.
And you saved more on gas and maintenance than the cost of that repair if it happened outside of warranty (which is 10 years on batteries)
Your battery wasn’t still under its 10 year / 100000 mile warranty?
"fall apart" is a very careful choice of words here.
The battery may fail, individual cells may fail, but it will still be one unit.
I wish evs were just as reliable and repairable as gasoline/diesel cars are on average.
Are they not as reliable?
They're actually more reliable and money saved on gas and maintenance is much more than the price of changing the battery every 10 years.
I mean, depends on the car you have. Outside of purchasing the vehicle, I haven't spent 15k in the last decade of car ownership and that's in AUD, so like 10k us. Pretty sure a new battery could cost more than that. Definitely the case for some though, especially if you have cheap electricity.
Why would you worry about the battery when it has a 8-10y warranty on it on average? The only reason to replace it is if it has a manufacturing problem and that's why there's a warranty. Don't void the warranty and you'll be fine.
You don't have to change the high voltage battery on EV nowadays.
Source: I own a Polestar 2.
Cars last more than 8-10 years so the warranty wont always help. For example I have never in my life owned a car that is less than 10 years old, my current '08 is the newest by almost a decade. Being concerned about replacing the battery is a long term thing.
Very true. Although out of warranty doesn't mean the battery needs replacement. There are many Teslas out there (because there are not many other EV that old yet) that have 700 000 km and more, some even closing in to the million km, and on average their battery SoH is still over 70%.
Again as the article says, the car will need replacement for pretty much everything else (suspension, steering, etc) before the HV battery.
Again, the battery is not something to be concerned about, even long term.
Gas + maintenance, you haven't spent 15k? I call bullshit unless you drive so little that you don't really need a car in the first place...
My last car I had for just over 2 years cost me $500 in services, $200 for a new fuel tank (new is a strong word for an at the time 22 year old car), and then its just fuel and rego, fuel was like $80/month and is the primary expense, rego might actually put it over 15k for a decade because that's like $700/year on nearly any car i've had (where i am its mostly based on cylinder count, and i haven't owned a 4 cyl car since like 2017, at least my performance car doesnt cost more because 6 cyl is 6 cyl regardless of power output).
I don't drive a whole lot, but enough that I'm not in the bottom bracket of my insurance, car is required due to not even living in a town. Not even remotely interested in walking the 4km to work because 6 months of the year minimum are way too hot for that.
The only issue I've ever had with my Ioniq 5 in 2 years was running over a screw and had to get the tire sealed. There is no oil to change, so the only regular maintenance is free tire rotations at the dealer.
It is a relatively new car though, if anything severely broke on it you'd probably be pretty upset, same with a new ice car. You probably have cabin air filters that should be changed at some point, but that isn't different to an equivalent ice car anyway. At least for EVs in my country, maintenance seems to be about 2/5ths the cost of an ice car, or at least of the ice cars i've owned. If you have solar or live somewhere with cheap electricity compared to fuel it's probably saving a respectable amount.
Well, the range part of the equation isn't. A fuel tank doesn't get smaller over time, and you can replace one fairly easily. Batteries die over time, and can't be replaced easily.
They aren't that hard, just no one wants to actually do it. Harder than a fuel tank and requires actual training, for sure, but it isn't that hard for a trained person. I've seen reports of batteries actually doing fairly well, although I suspect that's brand dependant, the Nissan leaf got a pretty bad rep for being hot trash. Literally, I think the issue was a passive cooled battery just degrading it at absurd rates.
You drain it, unbolt 2 straps, pull the pump, and then put the pump in the new tank, and replace the tank. You might even get lucky and not have to undo any fuel hoses.
With skateboard designs, like all Teslas, you have to remove the entire interior.
I haven't seen Tesla's getting the battery swapped.much, but I've seen others that while probably taking a few hours isn't removing the entire interior. Honestly, that's just yet another reason to not buy a Tesla, as if there weren't enough reasons to avoid them as it is
Having had a petrol tank replaced, you make it seem like it's a 15 minute job, definitely isn't, at least it wasn't in my ford falcon (au, 2000 model) and that's a basic bitch car.
Doesn't fuel efficiency go down, though? I'd say that's roughly equivalent to the battery losing effectiveness. And generally requires fixing or outright replacing key components to get back to par.
A used fuel tank isnt an ecological disaster waiting to happen.
Not to 80% in a few years
True, the scale isn't quite the same, but the technology is also much newer. You'd agree that fuel efficiency, much like battery efficiency, does go down, though?
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That doesn't say they are unreliable, just that the tech that isn't the basic car function is utter garbage a lot of the time. Can't really disagree with that, fuck off with screens bigger than my laptop and give me my damn buttons back.
The repairability is a much bigger concern for me than reliability. When even opening the motor housing is grounds for warranty termination in most EVs, it's easy to understand why so many people are still buying ICEs
Far less moving parts though. No oil changes. Simpler “transmission”. Regenerative breaking means it takes forever for you to need to replace brake pads. Etc etc.
Less moving parts means an entire drivetrain replacement when something inevitably goes wrong and maintenence =/= repairs
Not necessarily, in theory anyway, but we all know big auto likes full replacements of everything so effectively yes, absolutely. It doesnt matter what powers the car though. The [undisclosed purpose sensor #7] fails and suddenly you have to replace the car computer which is encased in opaque resin for some reason and not even servicable by the engineer that designed it.
EV only vehicle manufacturers are not doing a great job on the servicing side of the business with months wait times. Robison is up to 6 mo right now. That’s unacceptable when your AC fails. This is where the large manufacturers have the upper hand, if they can ever get it together and make 1) vehicles that aren’t a 2nd mortgage and 2) cheaper to repair.
A rear quarter panel on a Rivian R1S is $20K+ as the entire side of the vehicle has to come off to get to it. Rivian only sells the quarter panel with the entire side. You can’t just get the rear quarter panel. Absolutely insane engineering.
It shouldn't be up to manufacturers to monopolize servicing their products in the first place!
They’re following the model of the tech industry, which makes sense because there’s a lot of crossover there
I fixed an acer laptop yesterday. It was a gaming one, like a $700 laptop. Wouldn’t turn on. Acer said the motherboard had to be replaced. When I got it I found a blown capacitor shorting the main power rail, replaced it, and it works fine now. A part that costs like 3 cents in bulk. Repair was roughly 45 minutes including diagnosis.
For this one a motherboard swap isn’t the end of the world but the additional point is that for many of modern laptops and for all phones this results in a superior repair. This laptop in particular had removable nvme storage but tons of laptops have the ssd soldered directly to the motherboard so swapping the motherboard means you lose all your data. No one ever has backups lmao
But acer, apple, Lenovo, hp, etc all do this. It’s much easier to train their techs to just do board swaps, it’s much more lucrative to make repairs a several hundred dollar endeavor instead of the pennys it would cost to replace passives or basic ics, etc. they then send the “junk” boards off to the manufacturing depot in sea to actually get fixed and then sell them again as refurbished
Rivian only sells the quarter panel with the entire side. You can’t just get the rear quarter panel.
Volkswagen did this with the Fox in the 80s. The whole side from the A pillar to the taillight, roof to rocker, was one piece. And to add insult to injury, they shipped them bare. 100% of them required repair by the body shop before putting on the car.