194
Russia is signaling it could take out the West's internet and GPS. There's no good backup plan.
(www.businessinsider.com)
Bark bark bark
this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2024
194 points (90.4% liked)
politics
19120 readers
2547 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Yes, this is really like a tiny dog barking its head off, because it's convinced it can't be harmed.
Russia and Putin have been embarrassing themselves for a while now.
suuure, they couldn't even take out ukraines communication systems
Cutting a couple undersea fiber cables and completely fucking the whole internet is very easy. Humanity has so far just kinda silently agreed to not fuck with that.
Sure, but welcome to 2024, where we have mirrors and cdns and the cloud with distributed everything.
Not saying disconnecting the americas from eurasia wouldn't be a big deal, but the internet would keep working.
Elon would be very happy.
Im curious… how much undersea cable traffic could Starlink handle? I know the sat-sat laser links are just coming online now, what if every sat had them
load more comments
(1 replies)
And otherwise, you can't eliminate the possibility of local sabotage as well. Most of the important networking information in Sweden was leaked due to our "open information" laws.
It's not like Russia can make it some long-term problem, but being an annoyance and making chaos is their goal.
Maybe the local internet would keep working but the countries wouldnt. Lots of stuff stops working without central web authorities and all international trade and payment systems would collapse. It would be a massive catastrophe. But its probably quite hard to take out everything at once before the militaries of the world would start paying special attention to those cables.
load more comments
(1 replies)
would Americans even consider that taking down the internet? It wouldn't impact a US client talking to a US server.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Maybe they could get an compromised/friendly/useful idiot/individual installed in the hightest levels of government who, either intentionally or unintentionally, would funnel secrets to them which help facilitate mass disruption?
ohh wait...
I find the threat of GPS loss to be hard to believe. Theyd have to take out 38 GPS satelites and presumably any of the other navagation satellites American allies have in orbit, and presumably theyd have to not damage their own navigation satelites in the process. I also doubt they could do that all at the same time, or quick enough that no one could respond. Im sure they have the capability, and im sure they have an idea of what the operation would have to look like but in terms of a plan that's actionable, I have big doubts.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss that threat.
They know exactly where in the sky they are. They know what frequencies their antennas are tuned to. I'm betting burning out those transceivers would not be an impossible feat.
I also don't know how well they put up against really large lasers
They've also been fully capable of putting s*** into space for years. I would not put it past them to have some form of combination weather/spy satellite and weapons platform out there.
They must be aware of the concept of re-ta-lia-tion. You shoot down my satellites, I shoot down yours. Nobody wins and we are all back 40 years.
Yeah?
And we'd retaliate. Which is why they haven't done it. They didn't shoot down the satellites in the cold war and they aren't going to do it now unless they've decided the world without satellites is just so much better.
How is this news? China could nuke the West Coast tomorrow and the Canadians might invade Maine to secure a maple syrup monopoly! Actually, that's more likely than anything else in this thread...
If Canada invades I'm fighting on their side. We suck so much and they're polite.
Maine should just be part of New Brunswick but your decorators could never match the right shade of pink
load more comments
(2 replies)
Russia said they'd take over Ukraine in three days.
Russia says a lot of shit.
Russia has become the embarrassing relative you hate seeing at holiday gatherings.
How would they interfere with our elections without the Internet?
The same Russia that "indicated" the Ukraine special operation would take three days?
Lol
What? The whole fuckin internet is the backup plan
Like bro do you even BGP?
Like bro do you even BGP?
BGP works under assumption that everyone involved acts in good faith and that good faith can be, and in specific cases in history was, severely abused.
So it is likely it will be part of the problem.
So Ivan Sabotageovich calls up someone who works at Level3
Says "Hey broski I want you to start announcing bogus BGP routes"
Guy who answers the phone says "What? Why would I do that?"
Guy on the phone says "I'll give you rubles"
Guy who answers the phone says my brother in Christ I make $175k per year and I will get fired and they'll fix it in about 25 minutes anyway, sorting out and fixing stuff like this is kind of why people like me are employed here and there are a lot of us watching what happens
Guy on the phone says I can also give you TONS of unrefined crude oil and methane, or precision aircraft parts from the 1990s
Guy who answers says I need to go now, good luck though
Guy on the phone says blyat as the line goes dead
No, Ivan will just announce "hey, I have direct link into these ASs" and lot of parties will believe him, consider him shortest route and send him lot of traffic intended for said ASs.
That's what china did in 2010 when they hijacked about 15% of all world's traffic.
https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1050&context=mca
... for 18 minutes
With their existing infrastructure in the US which Russia doesn't have
And it was detected (and was trivial to fix once detected it sounds like) even before people were particularly alerted to this as a possibility
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(11 replies)
that's basically russia asking to get wiped out
No one takes them seriously, they just bark. Here's a hilarious wiki article on all the red lines Russia set in the past.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_lines_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War
Date notified: February 24, 2022
Red line: “Interference” in Ukraine by outside powers
Date broken: February 24, 2022
This one send me flying.
load more comments
(18 replies)
Russia couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag.
The internet was literally created by the DoD to have a communication system that was resilient to foreign attacks. If one part of it goes down, it can still work with the parts that aren't down. This is built into the design.
Nope. Usually this claim includes some reference to nuclear war, but the Internet was not designed to withstand attack. Arpanet was not designed with military applications primarily in mind.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Russia continuing to signal why it's a good idea to take them out. Thanks, Russia!
load more comments
(1 replies)
They’re afraid to use their glide bombs in Kursk because they’re not accurate enough to avoid hitting their own friendlies and they think they can hit a satellite moving ten of thousand + miles an hour in orbit!? lol
For real. People talking like Russia is going to jam GPS or something, while they can’t even jam GPS or RF well enough to prevent FPV drones from slamming in to their own people. I just saw a video of a Ukrainian FPV drone taking out a Russian EW platform that’s purpose built to counter drones for fucks sake.
Edit - oh. This statement was from Medvedev back in June. lol ok bro. How you gonna run those sub generators you need to fuck with those cables when all your diesel is currently burning off in a fucking epic conflagration? Your country is literally cooked rn.
"We could totally fuck you up if we wanted."
"Go ahead and do it then."
"..."
"I'm waiting."
"...I do not want to."
In the Julia Roberts move "Leave the World Behind", they mention a process of destroying a country. (I vaguely recall that the process was attributed to a real person.) One of the steps was to take down the internet. With lack of information chaos develops, and the country destroys itself.
i feel like taking down the internet is harder than it sounds. you could easily disrupt satellite, but the world will route around this... its actually designed for it.
they would have to poison dns or major routing points somehow.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(5 replies)
Just imagine the outrage if Russia is the reason that tiktok goes down
That's hilarious bro this putin guy needs his own stand up special he's probably got a million of these
The Russians talk shit everyday. It ends up that it's either something that they can't technically do, as it is here, or something that would would result in having their ass handed to them.
load more comments
(1 replies)
I really don’t think they have the capability, actually. They might be able to degrade the network, but I don’t think they would be able to actually physically destroy enough elements of the constellation to make it generally useless.
Not to mention, I’d be a bit shocked if the DoD doesn’t have some backups sitting quietly (as in: not broadcasting at the moment) in geosync. After all, it’s the first rule of government spending.
view more: next ›