Outside just being used for a vote most likely not. If you see that recent video DNC attendees cover their ears as the names of dead Palestinian children are read as they leave the convention. It shows you their real character.
this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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As of the 2020 census, there were 174,887 Palestinian-Americans. That is around 0.05% of the population, and puts them between the populations of the Cherokee and Choctaw tribes.
Now I feel for the plight of the Palestinian people. But it'd be foolish to think Palestinian-Americans have a major role in the country. I'm fully supportive of divesting from Israel, but I am not supportive of catering to a tiny minority just because of the victimhood of their homeland. They deserve around as much voice as Sudanese-Americans, even if they complain 10x as loudly due to massive amplification from various anti-Israeli factions.
Every single Palestinian American has either had their parents/grandparents displaced, or were displaced themselves, by the 75 year occupation since the Nakba. They are intimately connected to the genocide. That's like saying we shouldn't do anything about the Holocaust because Jewish Americans aren't a big voting bloc.
Note, I said I am supportive of divesting from Israel. Expecting a speaking position at the DNC just because your people are at war is itself not "doing anything" though.
I remember the genocides in Rawanda, Yugoslavia, SE Asia, Darfur which has resumed again. Uyghers. They didn't get speaking positions.
Stop the genocide, yes. Make Palestinians special, no.
Did the US fund those genocides? Biden caused millions of Americans to drop their support of Democrats because he intentionally joined one side in a war AND explicitly insulted Palestinians and their supporters, and the party desperately needs to get them back in order to beat Trump.
Nate Silver gives Trump a 46.9% chance of winning in November. Harris is reclaiming many of those voters who couldn’t support Biden, but she needs to do more instead of belittling pro-Palestine supporters.
If you think the Palestinian-American community and the 3.7 million Arab Americans or the 7 million American Muslims don’t matter then fine, try to win against Trump without any of our help. We’ve been one of the most pro-Democrat communities in America and have been committed donors, only to be thrown under the bus by Biden and now Democrats. Know that Biden won Michigan by 100,000 votes and there’s 200,000 Arab-Americans in that state. Harris could lose Michigan if she endorses Biden’s approach of unconditional support for Israeli violence.
No, you haven't been one of the most pro-Democratic communities in America, not even close.
https://www.aaiusa.org/library/what-polls-can-teach-us-about-arab-american-voters-in-2024
Note that only 60% say that even a hard shift on Israeli policy would have made them more likely to support Biden. If you could say with confidence that we wouldn't lose more pro-Israeli votes from American moderates than what we could gain, then this calculus might become different.
Regarding genocides in your other reply, yes, unfortunately we have historically contributed to some, though admittedly none of those and none in recent history except for Gaza and the West Bank. Israel is not the first US ally to take an overly brutal and inhumane stance with local affairs though. Unfortunately our allies are our allies. We have dozens across the globe, and we do historically tend to support them even when we shouldn't, when war comes to their lands.
I'm fully in favor of pro-Palestinian voices being heard, but when you sometimes act like a moral high ground somehow gives you a unique license to have your issues be front and center ahead of others, you're more trouble than you're worth. Interrupting speeches with chants and commiting vandalism at what should be peace protests are examples of this.
The big tent party literally cannot contain all parties, it's just not possible, no party can do that. Each deserves as much voice as it has number of supporters it can bring, and that puts anti-genocide voices somewhere around climate activists and gun control supporters. You're not the only ones with children dying, you see. We have everyone's futures to worry about, and that even includes Israelis too, whether we like it or not since hamas spectacularly escalated this to open warfare.
Each deserves as much voice as it has number of supporters it can bring, and that puts anti-genocide voices somewhere around climate activists and gun control supporters. You're not the only ones with children dying, you see. We have everyone's futures to worry about
Behold the Democrats and their inspiring message of “calm down, genocide isn’t that big of a deal”.
If everything around you is always inspiring, it is an excellent sign someone is feeding you horse shit. Real life has difficult parts, that's all there is to it.
Genocide is one issue. That's it. It can be someone's primary issue, that's fine, but expecting it to be a primary issue of the party is silly. In case you've forgotten, we've committed more genocides than we've stopped. By far. Unfortunately, Americans just aren't that against it. And we get self-rule, you see, where we are not ruled by holy principles, but the will of the masses. If the masses are cool with genocide, guess what happens?
So what you really need to do, is grassroots engagement, getting out there and appealing to some suburban white folks. But door knocking is too much work I think.
If you don’t think genocide is a dealbreaker, then you lose all rights to criticize republicans for thinking racism and sexism and homophobia aren’t dealbreakers for their candidate.
Life is not a simple enough thing for absolutes, unfortunately, that just results in greater and greater failure. It's a luxury we cannot afford.
edit: You could look at it this way: If we vote in Trump instead, will there be less genocide or more genocide?
You’re trying to argue the Trolley Problem but missing the controversy of WHY the trolley problem is problematic in the first place. If I vote for an alternative to Trump, and she kills people in my community, then I have a share of their blood on my hands. “Less blood” is not a comfort or excuse.
I agree, it is not a comfort or an excuse, as is often the case in global politics. It's merely a necessity if we are to save any of the Palestinian people.
Fundamentally it is impossible to save them all without beginning hostile action against Israel, they are being starved after all. Yet if we withdrew completely, it would merely remove yet another roadblock standing in Netanyahu's path towards his goals.
It's merely a necessity if we are to save any of the Palestinian people.
History is littered with people who made that claim. There were Jews who thought that cooperating with Nazis would save some of their community. Black Americans who thought that working with Jim Crow politicians would make a net benefit. It’s wrong, you’re wrong, and Palestinians will tell you they’ve tried this and failed. Abbas offered to go to war against Hamas and did so, in the hopes that Israel would advance his two state solution. They abandoned him and all Palestinians are worse off for the attempt.
Would their fates have been any different if the PA and hamas were united in hamas' goals?
Would Jews that tried to fight back against Hitler have saved any Jewish lives?
In the Jim Crow example, at least the racist politicians had a significant opposition to their policies in the Reconstruction Era, leaving realistic alternative options. We cannot say the same with your other two examples.
The world is simply uglier than always being able to defeat bad things by outright fighting them. Sometimes you have to scheme and manipulate, the situation the Palestinians have been in. Sometimes you just have to flee and admit the battle is lost, so you survive to fight another day, the situation the Jews under Hitler were in.
So you say it’s a Big Tent party for everyone but can’t accommodate Palestinians. Got it. Yet somehow there’s room for unconditional support for Israeli extremism allowed in that very tent.
You're not the only ones with children dying, you see.
There’s that condescension again. So you’re fine with selling out Palestinian lives because your personal interests outweigh those of your neighbors. Very nice.
Just admit it, Dems are willing to stick up for unpopular minorities like Trans people but Dem politicians can’t bring themselves to be seen in public with Arabs or Muslims.
The problem is you tend to act like conservatives, you don't seem to share any of our values. You're only dem because the repubs hate you and want you all dead, and we don't. You do not seem to share our values though, you're willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your goals and that is antithetical to us.
If you could acknowledge nuance and admit to your own wrongdoing in the Middle East, and not spout lies like "we always support democrats" just because it's convenient to you, this might change. But if you act like republicans, you're going to struggle in our tent. It has nothing to do with your ethnicity or religion, just your atrocious behavior. If you want less condescension, speak and act with honor. Acknowledge complexity and nuance, own up to it when you do something wrong instead of always trying to be the victim, just like they do.
And there’s the racism and Islamophobia coming out. Don’t share any of your values? How out of touch with the community are you? Majority of American Muslims believe in LGBT rights in polling and support abortion. We talk with plenty of nuance, which you’d know if you ever bothered to listen even once to our community, let alone the last 10 months where we were told to shut up because our mere existence somehow hurt Biden, who made his campaign detour around our communities and refused to be seen in public with us. This despite we were reliable donors to his campaign and celebrated that we got him elected by a narrow margin.
I don’t have time to debunk your false stereotypes. You pretend to care about the plight and then go giving insults immediately after. Go talk with Muslims and Arab-Americans rather than talk about us and Othering us.
America is directly funding the genocide of Palestinians
American citizens' tax dollars are being used to kill tens of thousands of children
I'm sorry you consider solidarity with the Palestinian plight "catering to a tiny minority." If the Cherokee or Choctaw people were victims of an active genocide using US weapons would you say the same?
I don't support it, I've said several times now I support divesting from Israel. I'm just realistic enough to acknowledge that you need the support of the masses before you can convince leadership. Expecting a high degree of prominence without doing your legwork first is a recipe for failure, and more Palestinian deaths.
Do you support an arms embargo or conditional military aid and a permanent ceasefire?
The Uncommitted Movement and anti-genocide protestors have done a huge amount of leg work and continue to do so. These are the people doing everything they can to stop more Palestinian deaths. You seem to be more critical than supportive of them
I do not support a total arms embargo right now, I do support conditions on our aid and a permanent cease fire, along with Netanyahu being thrown out and movement towards a two state solution, pushed by an ultimatum threatening divestment.
I do not see evidence that a large amount of leg work is being done. The strategy seems to be to go straight for leadership, trying to pressure them with high visibility action, and less on outreach to suburban American citizens, where the real power actually is. You are correct I am critical, but being critical of the methods and supportive of the cause are not exclusive to each other. I can support innocent Palestinian people while thinking you guys are doing a terrible job of actually helping them.
The recent boat run towards the Israeli blockade was one of the first good ideas I've seen out of the movement in a long time. Half your ideas are counterproductive, which I think we can see in the recent uptick in support for Israeli military action.
Feel free to help out and so some suburban outreach. The movement has made tremendous progress and is continuing to build momentum. The hundreds of delegates and hundreds of thousands of voters standing in solidarity will continue to grow
Being hard-eyed and critical about things we support is important for learning from any mistakes we make, since we are only humans doing our best. By improving our methods though, we can become even more effective for the future. This is just as important as cheerleading for our cause.
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