Home of the sh.itjust.works instance.
The instance seems to be mostly right wing trolls. I know defederating is unpopular but I don't think much is to be lost in this case and it can save the mods some headaches.
Edit: the response on exploding-heads.com to my reporting of transphobia. Courtesy of the "second in command"
IDK why people are thinking he's gonna de-federate for transphobia when he has allowed the matt walsh documentary to sit on his instance for days now
I am thankful I found a non-ban-happy home where I can see opinions I may dislike.
It's always funny as, non American, to read about this naive anti- censorship slogans. Hateful political groups never stay in their places and play nice everywhere else. They brigade and harass every fucking time. There's a reason why every place without moderation turns into a absolute toxic cesspit.
I'd like to decide for myself what I want to see and what not, as an adult.
Defedarating for political reasons seems stupid to me. If it's proven that the community is toxic and full of trolls, that is an argument to do it. Anyways, as other said, for now I don't think we really need some more defedaration drama
If we're losing our minds over ~20 active users, then we have way bigger problems than that instance.
EDIT: Just to be clear, I have no issues defederating with an instance like that. I just don't think it matters much either way.
Why wait until it becomes a problem? The_Donald literally started as a joke brought over from 4chan. It grew and over time it basically went from "too small to do something about it" to "too big to do something about it" (to Reddit admins at least). Why even give these people a platform? We don't have any reason to give them space to grow.
This is silly. Just block the users/instance yourself.
We should absolutely not turn to defederation as a first action. You know how traditional social media bans opinions that are not acceptable according to themselves?
We must be better than that. It creates a ridiculous otherwise where people think everyone agrees with them and they are never challanged in how they think about things.
I think we should be exposed to different opinions as long as it's within the rules, meaning people must be polite, not hateful, not breaking the law etc.
Read up on the Paradox of Tolerance, please. "We must be better than them" is a call for total tolerance, which will inevitably lead to the disappearance of tolerance, and that cannot be allowed to happen. It is simply impossible to have a community where transphobes and trans people coexist happily together, and I'll choose the side that's not trying to hurt others (trans people, in case that wasn't clear) every day.
Every censorship-enjoyer loves talking about the Paradox of Tolerance. Here's the part Popper said that they like to gloss over:
I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise.
Nobody's talking about censorship. Anybody who wants to see that kind of stuff can still just go to the defederated instance without any problem, and nobody is arguing for that possibility to be taken away.
Also, no, I'm not glossing over that part. Instead, you seem to be glossing over this part of your own quote:
as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion
In an age where transphobic legislation is passed left and right at an alarming rate, you can not tell me in good consciousness that transphobia and similar intolerant ideologies are actually successfully being kept in check by public opinion right now, and rational argument does jack shit, as evidenced by, well, the whole of public discourse about the topic apparently not having any bearing on said legislation.
social media bans opinions
Hate is not an opinion
Let's wait for per-user instance filters to be implemented, then everyone can block instances to taste. As long as their users don't cause trouble in our communities, there's no need for our instance to act as a moral guardians and decide what our users can and cannot see. Defederation is a nuclear option that should only be done if their instance is disrupting our instance's operation (spamming and breaking rules while in our communities).
I like that sh.itjust.works currently federates with almost everyone, and I can see a big part of the fediverse from here. It would suck having to visit multiple instance to see the whole fediverse.
If per-user instance filters are implemented, perhaps instances could have "default blacklists" for new users for stuff like exploding-heads or lemmygrad that most people don't want to see, with the option to manually un-block them if someone does want to see that.
Don't de-federate unless they're allowing the planning of violence, CSAM material, or actual abuse.
As a leftist I see it like this:
Blocking someone is: "I don't want to see this"
De-federating is: "I don't want you to see this"
Blocking someone is: Ignoring a person saying bigoted things.
De-federating is: Jailing a person saying bigoted things.
If you can't handle people saying shit you don't like then you need thicker skin. If you can't engage in a conversation with a person who shares an opinion that you fine distasteful then you need to seek maturity.
If you can't disagree with someone without physically attacking them, then you don't deserve to be part of a community. If you can't exist without abusing another person, then you don't deserve to be part of a community.
Defederation should be the LAST and FINAL option. From what I understand, this is a small instance that isn't causing much trouble outside of their instance. Block them on your own! I'm on lemmy.world, but personally I would like to keep up to date on the shit they post. I don't think we should start going around defederating communities that we disagree with, even though their opinions are shit, vile, offensive, and disgusting. Leave it up and block them on your own.
Edit: 10 years ago I used to be one of those intolerable fucks. Yes - exactly like them. Until I talked to other people on Reddit, real life, and listened to other ideas. I had a change of heart and hope even a couple of them could too. It happens.
I’m as leftist as they come and I do not support this action. If you don’t want to see it, mute the instance rather than creating an echo chamber.
Why? It will only create echo chambers, I want to access the entierty of Lemmy
My experience with exploding-heads is they are mostly level headed serious users and not trolls at all. Defederating because one person had their feeling hurt is dumb and ruins the fediverse for everyone
No, don't defederate. Just because an instance doesn't align politically with your views doesn't mean that they have to be gone. And we should definetly avoid a mastodon blocklist situation.
If you refuse to meet someone on level ground because you consider them intolerant of your own ideas, you're the one being intolerant.
Why should the ground be lowered to a level that fits the criterias of bigots?
If being bigoted is wrong, it doesn't take a genius to prove that, no?
I can disagree with everything they stand for, and think they are absolutely stupid, but god damn do they have a right to be. The mentality stemmed from twitter of "They are just so wrong I wont even listen or let them talk" is so ignorant and authoritarian. What if north korea censored people for saying anything negative about their government? That would be wrong to us, but to them it is based in logic.
The internet has become so used to banning expression, it baffles me. It used to be commonly agreed apon that every individual has a right to thought, and if they're stupid it should be easy to prove them so. Nowadays everyone is censoring everyone they dont like. Some people on the right wanting to stop LGBT content, someone in this thread wanting to censor the Matt Walsh documentary. I've watched it to hear his opinion, despite how much I may disagree with him. And it brought up some good points. If the documentary is so wrong, we should put it out there to show and publicly shame, no? Censorship is the weakest form of countering, no one is the moral authority they may think they are.
Sorry to make this so long but I am tired of people being willingly ignorant because they don't like what someone said. Have a nice day, stranger I disagree with.
