this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy's massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It's been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let's say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they're what's colloquially referred to as tankies. This wouldn't be much of an issue if they didn't regularly abuse their admin/mod status to censor and silence people who dissent with their political beliefs and for example, post things critical of China, Russia, the USSR, socialism, ...

As an example, there was a thread today about the anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre. When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies critical of the USA and the west. In terms of votes, the posts critical of China were definitely getting the most support.

I posted a comment in this thread linking to "https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs" (WARNING: graphical content), which describes aspects of the atrocities that aren't widely known even in the West, and supporting evidence. My comment was promptly removed for violating the "Be nice and civil" rule. When I looked back at the thread, I noticed that all posts critical of China had been removed while the whataboutist and denialist comments were left in place.

This is what the modlog of the instance looks like:

Definitely a trend there wouldn't you say?

When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

Proof:

So many of you will now probably think something like: "So what, it's the fediverse, you can use another instance."

The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they're not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is. So it's rather pointless sitting for example in /c/linux@some.random.other.instance.world where there's nobody to discuss anything with.

I'm not sure if there's a solution here, but I'd like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

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[–] ptz@dubvee.org 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

I'm not sure if there's a solution here, but I'd like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

Did that months ago; defederated completely when they turned into Lemmygrad-lite. At first I missed some more active FOSS communities, but since then, others on different instances have become more active. programming.dev has a lot of communities that overlap with some of the bigger FOSS ones on .ml so maybe check out what they've got.

If there's a community that only exists there, be the change you want to see: create it somewhere else, nurture it, and give it time to grow. You're not the only one making this complaint about .ml, and you probably won't be the last.

Related: I genuinely feel that ml being the official or at least de-facto flagship instance is turning people away.

Edit: Oh yeah. Didn't recognize your username at first, but I was looking at the modlog the other day from my LW account, and saw a bunch of individual community bans from Dessalines and wondered what was up. Figured it was something exactly like this, and it was. Thanks for sharing.

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If there’s a community that only exists there, be the change you want to see: create it somewhere else and give it time to grow. You’re not the only one making this complaint about .ml, and you probably wont’ be the last.

Maybe we should open a thread on !fedigrow@lemm.ee about this

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 2 points 2 months ago

TIL that community existed. thanks!

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Is it possible to see who is behind a mod action? I've figured something like world news on ml has some compromised fascist actors as mods but if it's the main creator doing this then that's crazy

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 3 points 2 months ago

There's an instance level setting to hide moderator names from unauthenticated and/or non-mod users. They probably have that enabled. Those actions federate, though, so the mod names won't be hidden if viewed from an instance that doesn't hide the mod names.

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[–] kbal@fedia.io 3 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Rule 1: Crushing people with tanks is fine so long as it's our side doing it.

Literal fucking tankies. I wonder if they will ever come to their senses. Oh well, it's not as if there aren't Nazi instances somewhere on fedi as well.

[–] themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago (3 children)

A hexbear in that thread is literally claiming that "the soldiers did everything they could to avoid hurting him" when there's a photo of him lying dead on the street after the tanks have gone through. They don't think it's fine, they're saying it didn't happen (curious)

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Of tank man? The guy in the famous photo?

Where's the picture of this? I've never heard that before. It doesn't appear in his Wikipedia page, it just says there nobody knows what happened to him after.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

[–] Microw@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

That photo (I've seen it circulate on the internet myself) is a photoshop. Every reputable source says that no one knows what happened to that man, and we have no evidence whatsoever of him getting run over.

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[–] wahming@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I've been banned from .ml for being a 'racist' for being anti-Xi, despite the fact that I am Chinese, and pointed out my ethnicity as such in the discussion. I guess antisemitic Jews aren't the only weird accusation getting thrown about nowadays.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (25 children)

I got a ban for pointing out the nuclear strikes on Japan killed less than the conventional firebombing runs leading up to it, and if nukes wouldn't have been used a shit ton more people would have died.

Like, no opinion on if what was morally right or not, just what the numbers worked out.

It's all trolls over there, when a rational person makes a community, the admins start drama there and troll the mods till they leave or get kicked out for stupid shit.

I just blocked the whole instance. I never see any of their posts now, and as an unintended bonus I don't even get notifications when their users reply to my comments.

Like, it would be best if we defederated from them and that hilariouschaos troll instance.

But I can just block them, works the same.

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[–] aleph@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago (7 children)

I've defended lemmy.ml in the past when people have blamed the entire instance for the actions of a solitary, overzealous moderator, but this genuinely concerns me:

This must have been action taken at the instance admin level, considering all those communities have different moderators.

Is there any way to probe the modlog to see which account it was?

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Gonna put this out there. Ended up in a thread on ML the other day. The poster/admin got a little unhinged, over 4 down votes. 4. Took to the admin panel to see who dared down vote him. Convinced he had been the victim of the tiniest not swarm ever.

1000001794

It's troubling behavior for anyone with power.

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[–] kuato@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Only admins can do site bans. What you're seeing is a hacky/temporary feature of the upcoming Lemmy v19.4, of which lemmy.ml is running the pre-release: when an admin bans someone from the site (temp or otherwise), it also automatically bans them from any community they have ever participated in. Lemmy.ml has always been the "beta" instance for new releases.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I can't see those, specifically, but a similar pattern of mass community bans after even remotely criticizing an authoritarian regime is completely on brand for Dessalines.

I don't have record of the comment that triggered these, but when it's something like civility, it's usually just a comment removal and maybe a single community ban.

More of Dessalines getting his stanky tankie tightie-whities in a bunch

Dessalines bans people

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[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

People are naive if they think the .ml admins and devs don't intend to keep their thumb on the Lemmy scale. More instances need to take this threat seriously and defederate from .ml, and possibly even fork the Lemmy repos for when the devs inevitably decide they want to start building quiet exploits into the code. There are serious cyber security implications here that people are sleeping on

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[–] figaro@lemdro.id 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm all for defederating from tankie instances. They suck.

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 months ago

Yes, we should all recognize that Lemmy.ml is a tankie instance.

[–] StaySquared@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Semi-O/T

There's censorship just for having a different opinion. When you challenge someone's belief in any subject... or just simply have a disagreement, you're getting banned. Lemmy is following in the foot steps of Reddit in the sense that it appears that the left/progressives want to be segregated and keep the division. No dialogue, no meeting in the middle.. just ban anyone who threatens their bubble.

[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (4 children)

as a communism sympathizing leftist, i hated these mods on reddit and i hate them here. the behavior is idiotic

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[–] viking@infosec.pub 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Tankies gonna tank. Just block their shit instance and move on with your life.

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[–] whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

lmao get back to me when the mods on lemmy.world stop deleting every comment that is critical of Biden. STFU. There is no recourse for mods on Lemmy and they can use their powers to delete any comments they want. The only recourse you have is to find a fediverse that caters to your weakass centrist views.

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[–] Darkpepito_tux@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

As a marxist, I'm myself tired of how tankies deals with criticism. And I don't even understand how people can stay with "Stalin was not so bad", knowing that he never planned to apply the last state of the Communist theory, and even if it did, massacre are not acceptable (sounds obvious), same applying with China and their open market.
In my country (France), Stalinism isn't a thing, all communists are against what happend in USSR, and most are anti-china.

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[–] 33550336@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Tankies warming up to call you and Lemmy.World fascists in 3, 2, 1...

[–] Lianodel@ttrpg.network 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Tankies: The word 'tankie' is meaningless because it gets overused by disingenuous people on the right.

Also tankies: Everyone who criticizes my position is right-wing.

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 1 points 2 months ago

Every word used by disingenuous people on the right becomes "useless" - freedom, patriot, Christian, help, law, order, justice, democracy, Constitution, agreement, good, bad - you name it, they twist it into a 100% polar opposite of what it used to mean before they got their hands on it.

So at some point, I think perhaps they should not be in charge... of what words "mean"? :-P

That said, 'tankie' is pejorative so perhaps we can find a better one for that different reason. I don't know what, or for sure that a pejorative is bad, but maybe "authoritarian", totalitarian, or fascist seems accurate - as in not beholden to "principles" so much as whoever holds the power gets to do whatever they want.

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

No, we want EVERYONE to feel welcome.

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[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You just made me realize that I have been banned from some of the communities over there while never having posted on them, mods are reading conversations in other communities and preemptively banning people...

[–] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 months ago

Oh, boy. Back to the old Reddit patterns. How long before they start using bots to preemptively ban anyone who has ever posted on certain communities regardless of context as a time saving measure, because that was a thing on Reddit as well?

Any idea which subs are banning like that already?

[–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Tankies are modding many communities here as well. The solution is to fight them tooth and nail.

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[–] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago

I’ve been making fun of Lemmy.Ml for months, I’m glad to see I’m not the only one

[–] el_bhm@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago

Pretty sure they are creating alt accounts on non-tankie instances.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I am one of the removed comments and just found out about it here. Does the Lemmy standard really not send direct messages to users when one of their messages was removed? If it was an actual Rule 1 violation (which of course, it wasn't) I'd like to know.

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There is no "lemmy standard". There is ActivityPub though. Lemmy could maybe implement something to send an ActivityPub message when something is removed but this has not been done yet. I think there is an issue for it on GitHub though?

[–] Microw@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago

Yes there is an open issue on Github for moderation notifications (Get notified when you've been banned, your post has been removed, etc): https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4572

[–] pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)
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