this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2024
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I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy's massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It's been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let's say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they're what's colloquially referred to as tankies. This wouldn't be much of an issue if they didn't regularly abuse their admin/mod status to censor and silence people who dissent with their political beliefs and for example, post things critical of China, Russia, the USSR, socialism, ...

As an example, there was a thread today about the anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre. When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies critical of the USA and the west. In terms of votes, the posts critical of China were definitely getting the most support.

I posted a comment in this thread linking to "https://archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://imgur.com/a/AIIbbPs" (WARNING: graphical content), which describes aspects of the atrocities that aren't widely known even in the West, and supporting evidence. My comment was promptly removed for violating the "Be nice and civil" rule. When I looked back at the thread, I noticed that all posts critical of China had been removed while the whataboutist and denialist comments were left in place.

This is what the modlog of the instance looks like:

Definitely a trend there wouldn't you say?

When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

Proof:

So many of you will now probably think something like: "So what, it's the fediverse, you can use another instance."

The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they're not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is. So it's rather pointless sitting for example in /c/linux@some.random.other.instance.world where there's nobody to discuss anything with.

I'm not sure if there's a solution here, but I'd like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

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[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No, we want EVERYONE to feel welcome.

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[–] Aux@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Tankies are modding many communities here as well. The solution is to fight them tooth and nail.

[–] Mastengwe@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

Oh they are all over the politics communities. Both as mods and as trolls.

[–] el_bhm@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

Pretty sure they are creating alt accounts on non-tankie instances.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I am one of the removed comments and just found out about it here. Does the Lemmy standard really not send direct messages to users when one of their messages was removed? If it was an actual Rule 1 violation (which of course, it wasn't) I'd like to know.

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There is no "lemmy standard". There is ActivityPub though. Lemmy could maybe implement something to send an ActivityPub message when something is removed but this has not been done yet. I think there is an issue for it on GitHub though?

[–] Microw@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

Yes there is an open issue on Github for moderation notifications (Get notified when you've been banned, your post has been removed, etc): https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4572

[–] StaySquared@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Semi-O/T

There's censorship just for having a different opinion. When you challenge someone's belief in any subject... or just simply have a disagreement, you're getting banned. Lemmy is following in the foot steps of Reddit in the sense that it appears that the left/progressives want to be segregated and keep the division. No dialogue, no meeting in the middle.. just ban anyone who threatens their bubble.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You just made me realize that I have been banned from some of the communities over there while never having posted on them, mods are reading conversations in other communities and preemptively banning people...

[–] Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 month ago

Oh, boy. Back to the old Reddit patterns. How long before they start using bots to preemptively ban anyone who has ever posted on certain communities regardless of context as a time saving measure, because that was a thing on Reddit as well?

Any idea which subs are banning like that already?

[–] TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

I’ve been making fun of Lemmy.Ml for months, I’m glad to see I’m not the only one

[–] figaro@lemdro.id 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm all for defederating from tankie instances. They suck.

[–] vga@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 month ago

Yes, we should all recognize that Lemmy.ml is a tankie instance.

[–] viking@infosec.pub 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Tankies gonna tank. Just block their shit instance and move on with your life.

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[–] pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] ptz@dubvee.org 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I'm not sure if there's a solution here, but I'd like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

Did that months ago; defederated completely when they turned into Lemmygrad-lite. At first I missed some more active FOSS communities, but since then, others on different instances have become more active. programming.dev has a lot of communities that overlap with some of the bigger FOSS ones on .ml so maybe check out what they've got.

If there's a community that only exists there, be the change you want to see: create it somewhere else, nurture it, and give it time to grow. You're not the only one making this complaint about .ml, and you probably won't be the last.

Related: I genuinely feel that ml being the official or at least de-facto flagship instance is turning people away.

Edit: Oh yeah. Didn't recognize your username at first, but I was looking at the modlog the other day from my LW account, and saw a bunch of individual community bans from Dessalines and wondered what was up. Figured it was something exactly like this, and it was. Thanks for sharing.

[–] Blaze@reddthat.com 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If there’s a community that only exists there, be the change you want to see: create it somewhere else and give it time to grow. You’re not the only one making this complaint about .ml, and you probably wont’ be the last.

Maybe we should open a thread on !fedigrow@lemm.ee about this

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 1 points 1 month ago

TIL that community existed. thanks!

[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Is it possible to see who is behind a mod action? I've figured something like world news on ml has some compromised fascist actors as mods but if it's the main creator doing this then that's crazy

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 1 points 1 month ago

There's an instance level setting to hide moderator names from unauthenticated and/or non-mod users. They probably have that enabled. Those actions federate, though, so the mod names won't be hidden if viewed from an instance that doesn't hide the mod names.

[–] kbal@fedia.io 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Rule 1: Crushing people with tanks is fine so long as it's our side doing it.

Literal fucking tankies. I wonder if they will ever come to their senses. Oh well, it's not as if there aren't Nazi instances somewhere on fedi as well.

[–] Microw@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Crushing people with tanks

Just a heads up, while it is established that the CCCP killed tons of people on that day, the idea that people were crushed with tanks is disputed in academia and mostly considered inaccurate news reporting.

The famous "tank man" photo shows a guy standing in front of a tank in order to prevent them from moving tanks to another part where the protesters had gone. We have no evidence that he was driven over by that tank.

[–] justgohomealready@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

the idea that people were crushed with tanks is disputed in academia

There are photos of people clearly crushed by tanks?

[–] vorpuni@jlai.lu 1 points 1 month ago

No but the red paste is most likely explained by the tanks that were verifiably there. They could have crushed people with other machinery but they had tanks.

[–] themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)

A hexbear in that thread is literally claiming that "the soldiers did everything they could to avoid hurting him" when there's a photo of him lying dead on the street after the tanks have gone through. They don't think it's fine, they're saying it didn't happen (curious)

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Of tank man? The guy in the famous photo?

Where's the picture of this? I've never heard that before. It doesn't appear in his Wikipedia page, it just says there nobody knows what happened to him after.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

[–] Microw@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

That photo (I've seen it circulate on the internet myself) is a photoshop. Every reputable source says that no one knows what happened to that man, and we have no evidence whatsoever of him getting run over.

[–] wahming@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (4 children)

I've been banned from .ml for being a 'racist' for being anti-Xi, despite the fact that I am Chinese, and pointed out my ethnicity as such in the discussion. I guess antisemitic Jews aren't the only weird accusation getting thrown about nowadays.

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[–] 33550336@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Tankies warming up to call you and Lemmy.World fascists in 3, 2, 1...

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lmao get back to me when the mods on lemmy.world stop deleting every comment that is critical of Biden. STFU. There is no recourse for mods on Lemmy and they can use their powers to delete any comments they want. The only recourse you have is to find a fediverse that caters to your weakass centrist views.

[–] aleph@lemm.ee 0 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I've defended lemmy.ml in the past when people have blamed the entire instance for the actions of a solitary, overzealous moderator, but this genuinely concerns me:

This must have been action taken at the instance admin level, considering all those communities have different moderators.

Is there any way to probe the modlog to see which account it was?

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Gonna put this out there. Ended up in a thread on ML the other day. The poster/admin got a little unhinged, over 4 down votes. 4. Took to the admin panel to see who dared down vote him. Convinced he had been the victim of the tiniest not swarm ever.

1000001794

It's troubling behavior for anyone with power.

[–] Hubi@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Downvotes are public on Lemmy fyi. There are interfaces that show who voted on a post or comment.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

For admins, yes. I was pointing that out in the picture of the responses I posted. But not for General users.

[–] Hubi@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Even regular users can see them through other federated services like kbin AFAIK. They show up under likes and dislikes.

[–] kuato@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Only admins can do site bans. What you're seeing is a hacky/temporary feature of the upcoming Lemmy v19.4, of which lemmy.ml is running the pre-release: when an admin bans someone from the site (temp or otherwise), it also automatically bans them from any community they have ever participated in. Lemmy.ml has always been the "beta" instance for new releases.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I can't see those, specifically, but a similar pattern of mass community bans after even remotely criticizing an authoritarian regime is completely on brand for Dessalines.

I don't have record of the comment that triggered these, but when it's something like civility, it's usually just a comment removal and maybe a single community ban.

More of Dessalines getting his stanky tankie tightie-whities in a bunch

Dessalines bans people

[–] cloudless@lemmy.cafe 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

For people who want to avoid all content from lemmy.ml, including posts and comments:

I use lemmy.cafe now because it has defederated with lemmy.ml.

As a lemmy.cafe user, I don't see any post/comment from lemmy.ml users at all.

Communities on lemmy.cafe are invisible to lemmy.ml users, so I would recommend creating more communities there.

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