Hi those from all! We're a women's only community, men we appreciate your interest but please do not comment 😊
this post was submitted on 03 May 2025
448 points (93.9% liked)
WomensStuff
593 readers
292 users here now
Women only trans inclusive This is an inclusive community for all things women. Whether you're here for make up tips, feminism or just friendly chit chat, we've got you covered.
Rules…
- Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Any woman-identified person under the trans umbrella (e.g. non-binary, bigender, agender) is welcome.
- Don’t be a dick. No personal attacks, no aggression, play nice.
- Don’t hate on groups, hatefilled talk about groups is not allowed. Ever.
- No governmental politics, so no talk of Trump actions etc. We recommend Feminism@beehaw.org for that, but here is an escape from it.
founded 1 month ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'm worried your post body could make trans men (ftm) feel unwelcome here. Rule 1 is that anyone under the trans umbrella is welcome, so you should probably be careful about language that either excludes trans men, or implies they're not real men.
Rule 1 says "any woman-identified person" is welcome here -- can you explain how this includes trans men? But I could see bigender people feeling unwelcome from "men ... please do not comment" and that'd be bad.
Edit: nvm, just realized that rule 1 was changed.
I know it can be hard to understand, but trans men sometimes remain members of lesbian and women communities even after transition and may even struggle with their identity this way. Reading Stone Butch Blues might provide some insight, as Leslie Feinberg was precisely one of those trans men who struggled with giving up their identity as a lesbian, and detransitioned and remained on that fuzzy line between man and lesbian.
This space isn't here to exclude women like that, even if they are men. They have lived experience as women, they live as women, they might identify as women, and so on.
Binary trans men who don't feel the need to continue identifying as women and who no longer have lived experience as women may see themselves as men and not participate based on that rule, but it's not because they are trans but because they are men who do not feel a need to identify and remain in a community of women.
Bigender people and nonbinary people who identify as women are likewise free to post and comment here. The rule is meant to create a safe space for women, and we believe people who identify and live as women do not contradict this.
The rules should be updated to include trans-men then, I think -- the rule seems very clearly worded to exclude trans men.
^ this wording of the rule includes trans men who still identify as women. To be honest it hasn't been a problem, the rules are worded to allow them to choose whether they identify still as women or not and whether to participate here. Binary trans men who don't identify as women are men, and we would handle that on a case-by-case basis depending on the context. (Trans experiences and identities are complicated. If a trans man feels the need to discuss their life before transition when they lived as a woman, we aren't going to prevent them from commenting, this is largely a space for people who are treated as women in society afterall.)
To be honest the rule is mostly applied to cis men who ignore the rules and frequently comment here and sometimes get aggressive. We don't tolerate transphobia and are not trans-exclusive.
Fair enough. I'm not trans so I can't really say whether or not it makes sense. Just surprised me.
Thanks I thought it was clear from the fact that we're women only. I've edited it now
Ah. Well, I'm no longer welcome according to the rules as I'm agender, but before I go I should warn you that you could also make bigender people feel unwelcome. I have a friend who's a man and a woman at the same time.
Thanks non binary is included and I've put trans+
Right, but your post here says men aren't welcome, and some trans women are also trans men. Gender isn't a binary, it comes in infinite combinations.
bigender and agender people who identify or live as women are permitted to post here. This space is intended to be a women-only space, not a transphobic or gatekeeping one. Cis men and binary trans men who don't identify as women are not women and don't belong. Bigender people who are men and women are welcome if they choose.
OP should edit the post body to avoid making women who are men feel like men are unwelcome.
Sorry, I'm not entirely following your statement, who do you consider "women who are men"?
EDIT: I assume you're talking about this post's body text:
Are you just suggesting the edit made to the sidebar be made to this body text as well, i.e. that instead the body text says:
Not all bigender, agender, or non-binary people identify as women, being listed as examples of trans people who might identify as women and are welcome is not necessary for their inclusion, and the language before is actually more inclusive by stating "anyone under the trans umbrella is welcome". I'm not sure what problem is being solved here.
EDIT2: After thinking on it, I guess the idea is that by explicitly listing that non-binary, agender, and bigender people who identify as women can participate might it make some people feel more welcome.
I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with this, but the rule should be read as general, and we don't want to give the impression that only those kinds of trans people that are listed as examples can participate.
A trans man like Leslie Feinberg would also be welcome despite being much closer to a binary trans man, for example.
The rules are more like guidelines than narrowly applied laws, and I just want to avoid implying any variant that isn't listed is somehow not as welcome, the guideline is meant to work that way (and variants not listed are just as welcome as those that are).
It's the post body text on this current post we're replying under.
If a bigender person who is a woman and a man read this, she'll feel that she's being told not to comment, because she's a man. Excluding men will exclude some women, because some women are bigender men.
oh, you're talking about the body text of this post? This is a meme post, not a rules or policy page.
We have seen participation from trans men without issue already, I don't think this body text in a random post is going to make a huge difference - the rules and the sidebar already explicitly includes women-identifying bigender people.
Avoiding microaggressions is an important part of curating a space that feels inclusive. Explicit rules don't do much to make minorities feel included if those minorities feel that the implicit rules are different from what's being said. I saw a Reductress article a while ago that really speaks to this issue and made me think. Now, the accusation in the article isn't what I think is going on here, and I don't mean to be as confrontational as the article is, but I think it's a really good read for anyone, and especially anyone curating a women's space who wants to be trans inclusive.
https://reductress.com/post/4-inclusive-statements-that-arent-women-and-non-binary-people-i-consider-women/
Yes I know. In the UK we put trans+ for all genders under the trans umbrella