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Zelenskyy: No world leader has the right to negotiate with Putin on behalf of Ukraine
(www.pravda.com.ua)
this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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You'd think this would be a fairly cut and dry issue - the countries helping Ukraine wouldn't like it either if another country started negotiating terms on their behalf (especially not with a monster like Putin).
Ukraine and its people should be the ones to decide their own fate.
I swear people who think otherwise must've read David vs. Goliath and sided with the Goliath.
Bold of you to assume that they can read, or that they have read the Bible.
In my experience not even "devout Christians" do that last one.
easiest way to become an atheist is to read scripture.
100%. Reading the Bible cover to cover + learning about the history of how Judaism was born out of the polytheistic Yahwism and the resulting merge between Yahweh and the chief Canaanite god El was the way I just kept pulling the thread until it all came apart. The inconsistencies between an omnibenevolent god (El) and violent massacring war god (Yahweh) make a lot more sense once you know they used to be two separate gods.
Alright, that didn't work. What's next?
I dunno, if you believe in a global flood and the tower of babel I'm not sure I can help
Honestly I'm not qualified enough to make educated guesses what type of texts those are. As in, are they written in a form that insinuates to be literal stories. The teachings of those stories are pretty understandable, though.
Some say that the oldest stories are reverse prophecies. And we know how accurate prophecies are considered in general.
The Bible is not a science book, but one of relationship between God and man.
It's interesting that that relationship changes, isn't it? Like, early on God is the sort of deity to turn you into salt or flood the world if He's displeased. And over time, He does that sort of spiteful intervention less and less. It's hard not to see it as Him getting wiser and more compassionate. But... if He's all powerful and all knowing to begin with, why does His approach to people change?
It's not only interesting, it's difficult to understand, and Old Testament contains a lot of stuff that makes you doubt. But if you look at it from a theological view, God's judgement does not disappear anywhere in New Testament. It's just diverted into one person: his own son, who he abandons to be crucified, even though he is innocent.
Christianity is really a horrifying religion. The core of it is disgusting and offensive.
But it doesn't end there.
I can't say I disagree. The tendency to outright dismiss christianity online is understandable, but a little frustrating. Even with that horrifying core, a lot of people find solace in it. For many, it's the only semblence of community that's lasted into the 21st century.
On another level, it's just plain interesting the sorts of stories people felt needed to be preserved. It speaks to how they lived and what they valued. A lot has changed, and a lot hasn't. That kind of narrative window into the past is valuable, and I'm glad I grew up with it, even if I don't consider myself Christian anymore.
The stories in the Bible are kind of comforting, in a way. It's basically a chain of generations after generations fucking everything up and doing every horrible thing mankind does. Yet through all that the message is that God is always the same and always waiting for his people to stop running away from him.
It has different messages if you hold it upside down.
Hey Goliath was clearly in the right. David brought a gun to a fist fight, bastard never should have been allowed to walk free after that level of cheating.
Unfortunately their ability to decide their own fate is limited while they are reliant on resources from countries that are threatening to pull the plug.
Yet we still give Israel bombs 🫥
Israel gets all the munitions it wants to enact a genocide, but Ukraine has to fight for every bullet to fight for its own sovereignty against a modern day dictator. The US government's priorities really are something.
Truth
What about the country sending the most aid to Ukraine, without which Ukraine could not continue the war, being the one at the negotiating table?
Ukraine can 100% continue fighting their invaders without the US. Also, Europe supplies more aid to Ukraine than the US.
https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/28/how-much-has-the-eu-given-to-ukraine-compared-to-the-us
Then why is Ukraine constantly upset US isn't giving enough aid?
You might not realize this, but you're comparing a continent to a country. US is still "the country sending the most aid to Ukraine," which I said in my previous comment.
Because the US could do a whole lot more?
Yeah, but according to the other commenter Ukraine "doesn't need it" and he doesn't want Ukraine to be reliant on the US.
So... they both do and don't need aid from the US? Lol.
It's not that hard. They don't need aid to continue to fight, but they do need aid to be able to win.
I see what you're trying to say and I agree but this isn't the right echo chamber to be talking like that.
Would the US like it if another country tried to push it to the side and negotiate on its behalf on literally any issue, not even war-related?
Do you think the US would accept the outcome of such negotiations willingly?
I suspect it wouldn't, so expecting another country to do so is pure hypocrisy.
No, that country can fuck off back across the ocean, thanks.
And take their aid along with them?
What if this means Ukraine is no longer able to defend itself?
Then they can fuck off across the ocean with their aid. Ukraine isn't the US's puppet.
Alright well, I guess it can be Russia's puppet then.
Uh huh, it would be less a russian puppet than the US negotiating another countries' fate.
to paraphrase an old Polish quote, (on dealing with Russians) "The Rubble is preferable to Russian Dominion"
Maybe it's just me, but life in Ukraine didn't look all that different from life in Russia before the invasion.
Both nations are far behind the civilized world when it comes to social issues. Corruption was cited as a major reason for denying Ukraine entrance into NATO.
the difference beforehand was that prior to the shooting (big shooting at least). One was a flawed democracy that was trying to improve, and trying to do to itself what Poland did to itself after 20-30 years in NATO and EU.
the other was an authoritarian mob state. going from one to the other, was evidently worth fighting to the death over, I am inclined to agree.
You mean apart from all the dead Ukrainians and the ethnic cleansing and the kidnapped children and such?
I swear, everytime you reply to me it's in bad faith.
You need to brush up on your reading comprehension and take a class on persuasive writing.
Yeah, I read what you wrote. Unless you meant before the invasion of Crimea, and I don't think you did, I stand by what I said.
This comment should not have been removed. Flying squid is biased and should not be mod.
The comment said "I rest my case. You're too far gone."
If I had said this to anyone else, it wouldn't have been removed. He's abusing his mod powers to make his arguments look better. He's too far gone.