this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
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I'm sure Israel is devastated by this condemnation. /s But of course we won't actually do anything else.
If nothing else, maybe it could make the US, Germany, and France to stop for a brief moment and wonder if they're really on the right side of history in this one.
Especially Germany is managing to be on wrong side of genocide, again.
It's like they mistook "never forget" for being a useful advice from history - "never forget how to legitimise mass murder before your population".
Is France doing anything? I believe their relations with Israel had been getting worse because of the war.
They've been arresting people for wearing keffiyehs. They also took part in the banning of protests, and they've been pushing to expel students from Sciences Po for protesting (which is pretty unheard of). The recent election was pretty fucked, with the left frequently being attacked for being islam lovers or whatever.
I think it's fair to say that both French/Israeli and US/Israeli relations are suffering from Israel's genocide, but actions speak louder than words. And in terms of actions, France has sadly been quite shit.
Arguably not quite as shit as Germany though.
So according to a quick Google France doesn't sell weapons to Israel and Macron has been calling for a ban on arms sales to Israel.
That was definitely bad, but I don't think an event from the start of the war is relevant anymore. Israel largely still had international sympathy then.
When was that?
Don't get me wrong; I have serious issues with French Islamophobia and know Macron is a far-right prick. But, whatever possessed him to do so, he's staying on the right side of history this time around. While I'd love to see them impose sanctions on Israel, I wouldn't say France is particularly supporting them.
Yeah, Macron is not the worst. Macron called to halt arm deliveries to Israel in the beginning of October this year, which is quite little quite late, but again better than Germany and the US.
Here's a case about a Norwegian student who was appealing being expelled from Sciences Po over pro-Palestinian protests. She was not alone, but I can't find international media coverage. This was in August. The crackdown against pro-Palestina protests at Sciences Po was actively pushed by Gabriel Attal, so I think it's fair to hold the government accountable for campus controversies in this case.
I think Macron is not a far right prick; he's merely a centre right prick. He's not actively on the wrong side of history in this case, but he's very reluctant to be on the right side as well.
When I singled out France along with the two others it's because they're a huge player in Europe, and I find their response disappointing. But you're right maybe I was unfair listing them next to Germany and the US.
In general I think continental Europe except Spain has been a gigantic disappointment.
Does Norway not count as continental Europe?
I guess it does. I feel like Scandinavia only half belongs - as a Norwegian living further south the last half decade or so, it's a long way home. And in Norwegian, we refer to "down on the continent" as being the "proper" European countries, excluding ourselves.
I also didn't feel comfortable bringing up Norway as it would feel like I was just bragging about my country. ;)
Fair enough.
What are they supposed to do? Invade Israel?
Yes, why not? But realistically we could stop enabling them, isolate them, sanction them. These are three ways Israel would really feel hard. But who am I kidding that such thing might happen, right? Because, apparently, West is happy with genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity happening as long as they are committed by our friends.
Edit: grammar
None of them sell them weapons and they all are perfectly happy to fault them diplomaticly. Only the USA and Germany actually sell weapons to Israel these days. So it really is not the entire West doing it, but two countries and even then the US is really the big one.
You'd think so, eh. Here, a headline: "Macron calls to halt arms deliveries to Israel in Gaza war" dated 6 October 2024. Then there is Italy which is still honoring pre-oct-7 deals and god knows how much traffic goes unnoticed. But it's not just enabling them, even ignoring the horrors by watching the other way or even sympathizing with Israel, is helping them. As per US is really the big one - yes, and they have a weapons supply for decades to come. Germany is not that small as well.
Just read this "Spain cancels multimillion ammunition deal with Israel following media leak". ShOCKEd!
Not sell them weapons or bomb their enemies, would be a good start. Maybe gasp sanction them like Apartheid South Africa.
None of them sell weapons to Israel. As for bombing enemies of Israel, Slovenia helped the US in bombing ISIS. There also are training missions against ISIS and in Mali against islamist groups, which Spain and Norway are involved in. Other then that peacekeeping in Lebanon and shooting down Huthi missiles in the Red Sea. None of those groups being fought, have a problem with committing genocide.
So it is pretty obvious who you support.
Yes exactly. That's bombing Israel's regional enemies. And then they've been bombing Iranian targets in Iraq and Syria, among others, since forever. Now I don't support Iran in general and believe they should get the fuck out of the Arab world, but America definitely supports Israel against its regional enemies.
I haven't heard of the Houthis committing genocide so I'm not sure what you're talking about. If anything it was US-backed Saudi Arabia committing genocide against Yemen.
In other words you support the Houthis attacking ships in the Red Sea. Since you are against shooting down missiles launched to attack those ships.
We are talking about Spain, Norway, Ireland and Slovenia here and none of them have activly bombed in Syria or Iraq. Slovenia gave a bit of aid to the US, when they attacked ISIS.
I have not said they commit genocide, they just call for it and clearly have no problem with killing a lot of people.
I mean yes exactly. I do think they should be more transparent and consistent about who they target, but I do agree with the principle. They're hitting Israel where it hurts and it's working.
Okay that's my bad. In my mind the conversation had shifted to Europe in general. Nevermind I don't have issue with any of these countries regarding Palestine.