593
Biden said to call Netanyahu 'a f**king liar' after Israeli troops entered Rafah | The Times of Israel
(www-timesofisrael-com.cdn.ampproject.org)
this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2024
593 points (95.8% liked)
World News
39127 readers
2899 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
yeah it couldn't possibly be that international relations in the highly contentious middle east make the problems so tied to religious fundamentalism on both sides that the players are ideologically driven maniacs who will never accept any form of compromise because without the unwavering support of their hardcore adherents they won't remain in power.
I'M SURE THAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO FUCKING DO WITH IT.
You know if these assholes - both sides - would stop listening to their imaginary friends and look at the reality on the ground, we might have a chance.
As is, we're fucked until one of these gaggles of idiots sets off a nuclear war.
but mmm yeah blame both sides, you're just looking at both sides on the wrong side of the fucking planet.
If you think what's happening in Gaza is purely religious in nature you have absolutely no clue what's going on. The state of Israel has been illegally occupying Palestine land for decades. They have concentration camps filled with Palestinians where they commit rape and torture.
Palestinians are fighting for freedom from oppression, they are not fighting for religious beliefs.
Biden and the American government have been supplying a terrorist state with weapons as they actively commit a genocide. That's why people are pissed. Biden is literally giving weapons to a fucking war criminal.
I argue it couldn't happen WITHOUT the influence of monotheistic madness.
Pray tell, without the religious fervor on all sides, how long would any of it last? for fucks sake, be realistic
edit: and your thesis, that Palestine is fighting a purely secular battle - is absolutely absurd. Explain the atrocities on oct 6 without theology, it doesn't make you seem better, it's damning.
ffs people, stop with the silly fucking excuses
You're building a straw man, you're the one asserting that religion is solely to blame when it's just a tool that's being applied as part of a larger more complex problem.
This situation could just as easily have a secular socialist resistance fighting the colonizer, similar to some of the Kurdish resistance groups fighting ISIS and in Syria.
The reason for the conflict is that a colonizing state operating an apartheid government is committing genocide on the people living there to expand their control and territory. Illegal settlements aren't there because of Judaism they're there because of imperialism.
Religion is being exploited on both sides as an excuse and to motivate the people, but it's not the root cause.
facts disagree.
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/longform/2024/3/19/how-israeli-settlers-are-expanding-illegal-outposts-amid-gaza-war
"The outpost builders are often driven by an ultra-hardline ideology that demands Jews populate all of Palestinian land and force Palestinians out."
Two thirds are ideologically motivated - Haredim or Zionists. https://israelpolicyforum.org/west-bank-settlements-explained/
How do you go from secular motivation to this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_tag_attack_policy
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/hardliners-violently-expel-palestinians-to-expand-israeli-settlements-in-west-bank Eiyar insists the violence is caused by Palestinians refusing to accept what she sees as her biblical right to live on this disputed land, which they call Judea and Samaria, and that the only solution is for as many Israelis as possible to move here.
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GET THAT MADNESS WITHOUT RELIGION?
BIBLICAL RIGHT?
So please, provide evidence it's all secular. Religion is the root, it's fucking rotten, it's infected the entire region, and it's only going to get worse.
You're painfully ignorant. Nobody is saying religion isn't a factor, you're saying it's the only factor.
We get it you're an enlightened atheist, but that doesn't mean things aren't more complex
I've provided evidence for my thesis. all you have are insults and posturing.
have a great day.
Elon Musk and Trump are defenders of free speech because they said so. Everything they do is explained honestly by their words. They're not using a concept people are emotional about to push an agenda. They really really mean it. It's that simple.
Must be nice to live in your world
the west has nothing to do with it they just simply set up the settler colonial apartheid state and gave it infinite weapons and constantly protect it from any retaliation.
oh yeah the guys with the colonial settlements aren't religious at all huh?
lolwtf
mojofrododojo, You should do some reading about how and why Hamas was formed. It was formed with Israeli and Russian help to fight the PLO and the two state solution mandated by the UN. It was initially formed to be nonreligious but Israel insisted it be religious.
"..Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)
“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”"
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
This was always about shattering Palestine, taking their land, and using the vagaries of religious conflict as an excuse no one would dig too hard on.
lol I've been reading about Palestinian history for decades. you schmucks bought the british bullshit about the land being yours. and instead of cohabitating in peace, each side chose to murder people. over and over again. you build a settlement, they blow something up, you burn down their farms, they assassinate somebody. it never ends because both sides are certain god is with them.
it will never end as long as both sides keep listening to their invisible friends.
What religions do Ukrainians and Russians practice? I thought they were similar.
They also wear shoes maybe the shoes are to blame.
As it always was and always has been, religion is used as a tool and an excuse but it's not the root cause.
if shoes caused people to hate and murder each other that argument would make sense.
religion is the lever, put to the work of violence by amoral people, an easy task when they each assert theirs is the only way.
pfft. shoes.
a simple explanation for a simple mind
I'll take that as a compliment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
"The simplest explanation is usually the best one."
all the tiny brained downvoters, looking at the simplicity of life and saying "no, that needs jeebus!"
lol famously true of geopolitics
Oh I'm sure it's the most circuitous, vague explanation that works instead?
bwahahahaha.....
without a divine god, without monotheism how can we ever explain ANYTHING bwahahaha...
You guys are so self deluded I can't even.
Bqhaahahahahahshshshshhdgshdhshs god dumb if people no god there no war
You fall right into that "pick a side and get in line to accept whatever their consultants want or get bribed to do" fallacy. If every Dem had pressured the dem leadership by voting uncommitted, the dem leadership would have known they were going to lose and changed course. But people like yourself take whatever slop falls on the floor and call that dogs dinner enough of a democracy. Thats Pathetic.
feel free to vote for Trump if you think that's better. Or there's always Jill Stein.
Meanwhile, in reality, you assholes are gonna keep the fight going until one side makes the other side glow in the dark, that'll improve things IMMENSELY.
Glowingly pathetic.
wow thats insightful mojofrododojo, yes--its obviously Jill Stein voters and progressives who are to blame for the war in the middle east. Dont forget the youth as well, those scumbags.
/s
oh you see a peace coming any time soon?
explain it to me then. how do you de-escalate? israel wants to kill as many as they can in palestine, gaza, hell now lebanon, 40k+ dead, how do you get people to stand down after that?
pffttt.... wake up child.
Israel? One way or another, by sanctions, threats, politics, or actual boots on the ground, they have to be countered by force. That means a French/Spanish/Turkish (or someone else, but it almost has to include the French) contingent a few miles in from the Lebanese/Israeli border with their guns pointed in Israels directions and orders to fire if they are fired upon. And submarines ready to fire as well. And then a blockade by allied countries with a demand that the Israelis stop the murdering and land grabbing. I dont think the US would fire on the French. And once a credible force was in play, some of the middle east might consider an oil embargo to help. The Egyptians wont take up arms, but they might be persuaded to close the Suez to axis (the Israelis and their allies) ships.
Visas to citizens of Axis countries has to be curtailed as well for American citizens to wake up. That will be difficult but possible. Cut off Europe as a holiday destination and Americans will notice.
Whats your solution, just keep giving Israel whatever they want and deal with the refugees from the area? Or just let the goyim all die? I bet you have no plan at all and just exist here to troll. Lets see.
nothing is going to change as long as each side is letting their holy ideals lead them into war.
both sides.
but get rid of bibi tho, that's a first for any progress.
Yes, I'm sure the forced displacement of 700,000 people and the very reason they keep saying they are fighting has nothing to do with it, and its all because of religion. Thats a nice neat reaosn you can tie up with a bow. cool.
Say, do you know why Osama said he attacked the world trade center?
what do you think lead to the displacement? how can you get this madness without religious dogma driving people to see each other as the enemy on both sides?
Osama wasn't religiously motivated at all lol pfft
Heres some of Ben Gurions more human quotes that show you where he was at when Israel was founded. (the rest if his are pretty bloodthirty) Does this look like religious hatred to you or just a desire to steal land?
“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” David Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
but why steal that land?
the entire planet to choose from, and that land?
Why do you think that is?
come on you can do it, put the parts together...
No actually, its the nakba. Its always been about the nakba and the murders done because of it. For 800 years of the existsnce of the ottoman empire the jews and muslims got along perfectly well in the middle east, and that ended when the ottoman empire was disolved after WW2.. So history shows us your idea isnt true.
yeah that explains everything. so why did religion hold so solidly through the ottoman empire then fall apart after it's stability left?
why did the sunnis and shiites start murdering each other after saddam ran?
maybe without some very powerful base to threaten both sides into compliance, they can't help but murder each other. because their religion commands it.
the UK sold palestine twice. once to the Palestinians and then to the zionists.
and those two couldn't fucking make a paradise out of it, no, they had to start killing each other immediately.