this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2024
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[–] Drusas@kbin.run 125 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure why they think this is a younger millennial thing.

[–] SuperSaiyanSwag@lemmy.zip 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Probably bias from irl experience. Maybe their work friends don’t play video games, so they assume that most people who play online are gen z.

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[–] Rakonat@lemmy.world 84 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Im a millenial that wants to team up with friends to beat on the computer cause the computer hurt us all at one point.

[–] Benjaben@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago

I'm an elder millennial that had the rad but - overall - kinda bummer experience, where I got to enjoy this kinda vibe just a few times. Looking back it feels almost like a fever dream - it was so cool, but so fleeting.

[–] lmaydev@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

There is nothing like the old warcraft 3 battle.net scene.

Meeting a bunch of strangers in a random game and then playing all night with them.

Just good old fashioned PvE fun

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[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 59 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The introduction of voice chat is when playing randos on the Internet stopped being fun

[–] TheSambassador@lemmy.world 53 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Maybe, but to me it's voice chat + matchmaking.

I used to play on a few Day of Defeat: Source servers, and I met a ton of great online friends there. That's because they were dedicated and moderated servers that kicked and banned people for being assholes, in or out of voice chat.

But... If you're confident that you're never going to see the people in your match again, it's way easier to be assholes to them.

[–] theangryseal@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

This is the answer.

I made friends on dedicated servers. I got called the n word and told my mother was fat in matchmaking.

[–] fox2263@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

I had a select few servers of DoD and CS1.6. I saw in the millennium with some friends from all around the world while playing survivor.

Great memories.

Match making made things too easy and impersonal. You can only rely on a friend list now.

Heh it’s like the real world now I guess.

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[–] Makeshift@sh.itjust.works 43 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I much prefer co-op multiplayer to pvp and co-op in a game I’m interested in is rare.

So yeah mostly singleplayer.

[–] SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 11 points 4 months ago

I'm roughly on the same boat. A format I've come to enjoy is streaming a pausable strategy game with a group of friends and taking decisions collectively (so if the game is Frostpunk, we're basically the oligarchy that's deciding how much is the working class going to slave away and how many deaths are acceptable), but it's hard to find stable friend groups that like it.

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[–] Hazzard@lemm.ee 37 points 4 months ago (9 children)

Despite the massive amount of comments here, I still don't see anyone talking about my personal issue with PvP here.

It's ranked matchmaking. In order to keep things working at all, you have to pair players with players of a similar skill. And this means that fundamentally you don't get a sense of progression besides an MMR ranking. Your win rate will always be roughly 50%, unless you either smurf, or become the literal best in the world. Compare that to tough PvE games, like Doom Eternal, or a brutal platformer, where you can raise your difficulty, beat stuff you could've never beaten before, and generally see your progression. Heck, if you want to relax, just put the difficulty back or crush some earlier levels. I love to go back and learn to speedrun some of my favourite platformers, and that feels awesome. Games like Souls are also great at this, when you have to explore an earlier area and the enemies are just... so easy and satisfying to roll through. Or moments like in Sekiro, when you go into NG+ or just start a new playthrough and crush Genichiro on the first encounter.

And this whole thing is just.. so fundamentally necessary for PvP to work, you can't let new players get utterly crushed by veterans, so it's not something anyone is going to "fix". But I'm not hopping onto an endless treadmill that's never going to give me a sense of mastery. Especially not with so many other fantastic games out there I want to check out.

[–] Delusional@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The only time I've had fun in PVP games is if they're in beta and for a few weeks after release. When everyone is new and no one has memorized everything about the mechanics. But after those few weeks you get matched against people who know every trick in the game by playing for hundreds of hours and it's no longer fun.

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[–] theangryseal@lemmy.world 37 points 4 months ago

I relate to this so much.

[–] hardcoreufo@lemmy.world 34 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm an older millennial and don't want to play online. I thought younger millennials liked playing online.

[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 17 points 4 months ago (4 children)

We do, I dunno what they're on about. Younger millennials loved shit like Halo 3, Gmod, TF2, UT2k4, Q3A, CS:S, HL:DM, DayZ, and so on.

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[–] protist@mander.xyz 32 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

As an elder Millennial, I was in college when Halo and Counterstrike became things, and they were massively popular.

But sure, growing up I was playing fucking DOS games my cousin handed me on floppy disks, and then later games like King's Quest and Myst. Otherwise I was hanging with friends playing SNES and Genesis.

Also, all those 12 year olds kicking my ass online in Halo 3 in 2007 blatantly prove this person wrong

[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 32 points 4 months ago (1 children)

same bro.

i tried league of legends in 2012 and it was ass. i left and never looked back. every time i hear about people having a miserable time in league, i laugh, because i dodged a massive bullet.

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[–] RebekahWSD@lemmy.world 31 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I feel bad when I lose, and I feel bad when I make someone else lose, so pvp is just constantly feeling bad. There's no feeling of being good, just feeling bad.

I don't feel bad about winning against the computer.

[–] spirinolas@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago (5 children)

One thing that grinds my gears is this obsession with competitive MP. What happened with co-op? I have these great memories playing games with friends on the couch, cooperatively. Streets of Rage, Golden Axe, etc.

The moment online multiplayer appeared, these types of games disappeared. Its either competitive or mmporpgs. It's weird, I never understood why that happened. It's either fight ourselves or nothing. Just imagine what could be done. Playing a single player RPG with just a friend. Fight together or split side-quests. So many possibilities.

I guess it's easier to make people spend money on in-game crap when they're trying to one-up someone.

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[–] Dicska@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Especially considering the cheap shortcuts and literal cheats the AI pulls off due to lazy/hasty programming... I'll happily teabag the computer.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago

PvP is when you put in the boxing cartridge and one of you is the white guy and the other is the black guy, but you do better because you know the controller you gave your friend doesn't like to go left.

(Yes, I'm old.)

[–] Wrench@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The fuck? I'm an elder millennial, and I was PvPing my entire life. First over serial cables, Doom 2, Dune 2, Warcraft 1/2, C&C/Red Alert, Heretic/Hexen off the top of my head.

Then internet gaming came along in middle school. Ultima Online, Starcraft, Warcraft 3, CS (HL2 mod), etc.

And that's just PC. Shit ton of local pvp on consoles from the start. Spy vs Spy on NES is the first console heads up pvp that I can remember.

I just don't play much PvP now because I'm old and don't have the energy or free time.

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[–] Coreidan@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago (6 children)

The problem I have with pvp games is they are very shallow compared to single player games. Most pvp games also tend to be shooters which by definition are shallow in gameplay.

I usually get bored of the gameplay loops of pvp games long before I get tired of the pvp aspects themselves. Just take a look at counter strike, Valorant, Fortnite, etc. Not much variance in the gameplay loop. I get bored of that shit really quick.

On the other hand a single player game like rimworld, factorio, battle brothers…..Their gameplay loops are complex and still bring be varied interesting gameplay even 1000 hours later.

[–] RedAggroBest@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The variance is the PvP itself. No 2 players are exactly the same. I'm not a fan of PvP any more but as someone who's put hours into PvP focused games, calling them shallow and unvaried is the exact opposite of true. Most of them have crazy high skill ceilings, which is why they can be competitive in the first place

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[–] Lizardking27@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Hard agree. Online pvp is and had always been a latency contest. A person's ability to aim where something was 300ms ago is not impressive.

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[–] pyre@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago (8 children)

i don't think I'm a younger millennial but I'm the same. always played videogames, just not mp.

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[–] BodePlotHole@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

I play video games to escape the world full of people I can't stand. Not to run back into them in a place where they no longer have any manners at all...

[–] Toneswirly@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

As I got older, I started to find online toxicity less bothersome and more funny. I was playing The Finals yesterday and some dude was just going AT IT in the text chat (voice chat is always off, this is a must) and I was actually shocked to find myself insulting him right back. It was...fun. Am I part of the problem now?

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[–] billwashere@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

Dude I’m 53 and this is exactly me (so mid gen-x?). I’ve been playing video games since I was 8 (of course back then it was pong and an Atari 2600). I hate the toxicity of any online play.

[–] ClamDrinker@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (8 children)

I'm also a younger millennial, but I think this is just somewhat attributed to having enough bad experiences with PVP games, and that's fine.

The fact you are playing against other sentient, strategizing, sometimes malicious, but sometimes naively innocent, unpredictable, biological machines is just something you can't really find in single player games.

There's all kinds of pitfalls where you either take things too seriously, too personally, or just meet a ton of assholes in too short a time. It's a bit like life itself. It's got the highest highs, and the lowest lows.

Single player games are simply a lot more consistent in avoiding the lows, but at the cost of never being able to reach those highest highs of knowing you did so well against actual human beings, opponents you can consider your peer or even smarter than you. No single player AI opponent can match that. They usually never play by the same rules as you do, or lack the same weaknesses you do.

But since we remember the lows much more vividly, everyone remembers PVP games as being miserable. Yet we keep playing, because deep down we're hoping to get that high again. I think it's fine to let people enjoy that. But it might not be for everyone.

[–] AnalogyAddict@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Some people don't get highs from beating other people.

PVP sucks. There are always people willing to spend more money than I am on a game.

Campaign style playing with others isn't AS bad, though.

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[–] PunnyName@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I mean Pong was also a PVP game...

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[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Interesting take. I’m Gen X, and when online play came about it was amazing after so many years of singleplayer games, or games that your opponent had to be physically present to play on another controller next to you. So to reject online play to me seems…odd.

That said, I think online and always-online have done a lot of damage to gaming, from DRM to loss of physical ownership to loss of good singleplayer storylines in triple-A games.

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The main issue for me is that the amount of time I would have to put into a game to get good enough to not get shit on in pvp kills the enjoyment. I played a ton of destiny 2 and was still solidly mediocre at pvp. My first 2 games of Squad I don't think I got a single kill. Pubg was just miserable starting out. Never gonna touch warthunder.

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[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I love couch co op and single player. Online is great im sure but I despise that it has taken over gaming, ruined GTA

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[–] blarth@thelemmy.club 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

For me, playing against the computer inevitably results in me finding a repeatable way to beat it. If there is a story and varied environments, that is acceptable. However, for a real challenge, I’ll always go for human opponents.

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[–] kitnaht@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I like PvP games when they are among smaller circles. It's easy to get good when the people you're playing against all live locally.

But then you get into something like Destiny 2, and some korean kid who gets paid to main the game absolutely obliterates you the moment you spawn.

World-wide matchmaking is a mistake. If PvP were locally-matched, I think plenty of people would have a good time.

[–] vulgarcynic@sh.itjust.works 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'd advocate for player hosted / dedicated servers over "Locals Only". When you have community tools to regulate toxicity, you end up with a much better community. See also the TFC, TF2, Soldier of Fortune, Jedi Knight, Quake 3, CoD 4, etc.... servers I played and admin'ed on growing up.

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[–] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 10 points 4 months ago

My biggest problem with PVP in most games is the fact that my play style of being not super sweaty works against me since I felt like I was always getting paired against better players and felt like I was never getting any better no matter how much I played. Not a millennial, but I definitely feel this. CPU are also my beef as well in most games as well.

[–] adespoton@lemmy.ca 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (13 children)

I don’t get this.

I was playing PVP games in 1993. On the Internet.

I played my first offline video game in 1983.

Most video games I play today are offline on my phone, with a few PVP games in the browser on my computer.

What does being a millennial have to do with any of that?

[–] whoreticulture@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (8 children)

I also think he's wrong but he is talking about young millennials. I'm a young millennial. I was born in 1993. This post is not about you.

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[–] MasterNerd@lemm.ee 9 points 4 months ago

Same as an older zoomer

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago (3 children)

90s kid, and I grew up playing Counterstrike and the Warcraft/Starcraft series online. Multiplayer games tend to be the most fun when you've got a community of people around you to game with, and that's something high school / college provides in spades but adult life really finds lacking.

I'm mostly sad I was a bit too old to get into the Collaborative/Competitive game scene - that sweet mix of RTS and FPS you got from Tribes or the more heavily modded versions of Team Fortress or EVE Online, where you would build up a base's tech tree before launching a climactic battle against your opponent's main base.

Interacting with other humans and following the strategic "meta" to execute increasingly elaborate plays and strategies adds depth to relatively simple games. Whether I'm playing tennis or battling it out in the technodrome, there's something fun about the PvP experience that PvE can't replicate.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 8 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Just FYI, there's a new Tribes game that came out a few months ago.

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[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago

the only PVP i need is CHESS

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