this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2024
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Neopronouns are not trolling (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/main@lemmy.blahaj.zone
 

I've been waiting until after Christmas day to make this post, but some of our communities recently have had a lot of noise and upset over someone that uses neopronouns that most people are unfamiliar with.

So I want to make this clear. A persons pronouns are to be respected. This is true when the user is using neopronouns that you're unfamiliar with. It's true even if you think someone is trolling. Pronouns are not rewards for good behaviour. They aren't only to be respected when you like the person you're interacting with, or if their pronouns "make sense" to you. Trolls, spammers, twitter users, it doesn't matter who they are, your options are to respect their pronouns, or to not engage with them.

I really want to re-iterate the importance of this. Gender diverse folk are undermined, invalidated and questioned at every step of our lives. As a community, we need to be working to undo that, not creating more of it, and that means there is no space for treating pronouns (including neopronouns) as a reward for good behaviour.

This isn't a free reign for trolls and spammers. The rules still apply. Trolling, spamming, etc will continue to be dealt with, but it's not an excuse to act as if respecting someones pronouns is optional.

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[–] nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 day ago
[–] lolola@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I've spent what feels like half an hour scrolling through comment threads to figure out what the hell happened to lead to this. Is there some kind of explainer somewhere? Is there a key thread that I missed somehow? Should I even be asking?

[–] klemptor@startrek.website 60 points 1 day ago (13 children)

There's a user called dragonfucker whose gender is apparently "dragonfucker", who insists on the neopronoun "drag", and who eagerly takes offense whenever misgendered, whether the misgendering was intentional or not. Some people understandably believe this user is a troll.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Dragon Rider, actually, not dragonfucker. And drag isn't mad that you misremembered.

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[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I haven't seen them take offense very often

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[–] Taleya@aussie.zone 26 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A user called drag can sometimes rub people the wrong way. Sometimes it's drag's actions. Sometimes it's the fact drag refers to dragself with pronouns using various permutations of drag.

The former is a valid reason for contention. The latter isn't.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

~~I always thought Drag was speaking in the third person. Did I misunderstand something?~~ Edit: yes, I did

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[–] Nikki@lemmy.blahaj.zone 50 points 1 day ago

i don't get why its so hard for people to use the block function and move on, i was sick of hearing about dragonfucker the second i saw dragonfucker crying victim in every thread on my feed. other comments have outlined my feelings on neopronouns so i wont get knto that

it felt trolly and disingenuous the way that dragonfucker was going about it, so i used the block function because it was exhausting to look at. shouldn't be more complicated than that

[–] erotador@lemmy.blahaj.zone 105 points 2 days ago (6 children)

I love how this gets posted for community members, in a meta community, talking about how to engage with our space to not get banned, and then every loser from all comes in here like "umm actually you can't police my speech and umm pronoun bad" and promptly gets banned for being transphobic and breaking the rules that this post said will be enforced.

the mods and admins are doing a good job here, thanks for all your hard work you put in to make one of my favorite spaces on the internet as wonderful as it is.

[–] Catpurple@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Like moths to a light bulb, it would be funny if the banned folks' behavior wasn't steeped in hatred

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[–] pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone 47 points 1 day ago (4 children)

I don't care for neopronouns, but it also doesn't matter what I think. If it's REALLY a problem for me, like that person who's gender identity is divinity and the pronouns that person uses are capitalized, I just won't refer to that person. (Seriously, that does bother me, not that person's gender in general but referring to anyone, fictional or not, Like This.)

[–] spacelogic@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I see that case as an anomalous one because the tension I personally have there is: a person may be a god, but that doesn't make that person my god, and I shouldn't be required to behave worshipfully towards a god I don't follow. I may choose to follow other religions' conventions around how they refer to their gods and/or prophets in some contexts, but the idea of not having a choice in matters of religion makes me deeply uncomfortable. Respect between equals, which is what using a person's pronouns generally is, should be automatic, but deference to authority should be earned in my book.

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[–] yuri@pawb.social 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (8 children)

i bite my thumb at anyone who complains about drag. the most drag has ever done is correct people and VERY OCCASIONALLY call out when someone is actively belligerent about it.

reckon how folks treat our dearest dragonfucker is pretty good insight into how they’d react to myriad other similar social situations. this heavily contributes to why i have very little patience for folks “just asking (bad faith) questions” about it.

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[–] allo@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 day ago

Thank you. it is mindboggling that supposed trans allies can tell people they aren't valid without seeing their hypocrisy.

[–] Stern@lemmy.world 157 points 2 days ago (33 children)

Unless someones pronouns are in their username they're getting a "they" from me. Nothing against xe/xim/xir but i ain't checking every profile of every person I debate about whether Sonic would be tempted or double tempted by the One Ring.

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[–] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Very good post, I agree with everything said.

However I have a followup issue, I use Voyager primarily for Lemmy. I don't have any way to see bios (to my knowledge) in the app, so therefore I cannot see pronouns unless they are in someone's username. I have one of the "user tags" set up for drag specifically and will for any other neopronouns needed, but that requires someone correcting me before I can create it.
My question is, is there a way that this issue can be overcome? Id prefer to not move apps if it's possible as i like Voyagers UI but I will if I must.

Also, this is not really related, but do you happen to have a post or explanation you can link to about some drama between the shit-just-works instance and Blahaj? I heard that there was some drama but I can't figure out anything other than the NCD@SJW community mod having beef with blahaj, but not anything between the SJW instance itself.

[–] ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The rule isn't "Get peoples pronouns correct 100% of the time, never make mistakes, or get banned". It's "Respect peoples pronouns"

You're allowed to make mistakes. You're allowed to not know. What you're not allowed to do is invalidate and erase the pronouns of people who have made them clear.

but do you happen to have a post or explanation you can link to about some drama between the shit-just-works instance and Blahaj

It's news to me!

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 46 points 2 days ago (25 children)

My only concern is that people (or one person in particular) aren't genuine, but are doing to to discredit trans people, and the concept of gender fluidity in general. Kind of an extension of the "one joke" conservatives have ("hurr durr, I identify as an attack helicopter").

Obviously I can't say for sure that's what is happening, but I've read some of their comments that set off some red flags for me that maybe this person isn't being genuine.

I personally err on the side of caution, so I'd never purposely insult this person by calling them "him" or "her," but they'll remain a "they" to me, as that is still gender-agnostic not offensive to someone with "neopronouns" (as far as I understand it).

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