this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2024
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I have been thinking a lot since the election about what could explain the incredibly high numbers of Americans who seem incapable of critical thinking, or really any kind of high level rational thought or analysis.

Then I stumbled on this post https://old.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/16ires5/lead_exposure_from_shooting_is_a_much_more/

Which essentially explains that “Shooting lead bullets at firing ranges results in elevated BLLs at concentrations that are associated with a variety of adverse health outcome"

I looked at the pubmed abstract in that Reddit post and also this one https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5289032/

Which states, among other things, “Workers exposed to lead often show impaired performance on neurobehavioral test involving attention, processing, speed, visuospatial abilities, working memory and motor function. It has also been suggested that lead can adversely affect general intellectual performance.”

Now, given that there are well in excess of 300 million guns in the United States, is it possible lead exposure at least partially explains how brain dead many Americans seem to be?

This is a genuine question not a troll and id love to read some evidence to the contrary if any is available

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[–] kerrigan778@lemmy.world 36 points 13 hours ago

No.

No that's kind of stupid.

The amount of lead exposure from shooting is not particularly high and would be concentrated in a very small number of people who are doing things like firing uncoated bullets A LOT ie. reloaders. Most Americans don't own guns and even the ones that do don't fire them indoors extremely regularly and most indoor ranges have soap intended for lead. The lead exposure we're talking about is pretty tiny especially considering lead effects cognition the most during brain DEVELOPMENT and the amount of leaded gas and lead paint are going to be much, much more significant. People who occupationally encounter lead in things like bullets, such as range workers, armorers, etc, monitor their lead exposure and if they are within safe levels the average guy who goes to an indoor range a handful of times a year certainly is. Also, shooting is expensive, most people aren't shooting thousands of rounds a year, so countries with mandatory service where every 18 year old learns to shoot a rifle, likely using thousands of rounds of rifle ammo for every boy as an early adult would still be a much more statistically significant thing, as anyone who has ever received military training has, simply due to cost, shot more rounds than a very large chunk of any population

[–] Embarrassingskidmark@lemmy.world 8 points 12 hours ago

What a fucking retarded post

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 178 points 20 hours ago (6 children)

My aunt spent a long time working in education in the USA, much of it in leadership roles. When she incorporated lessons on critical thinking into the curriculum, it resulted in a lot of pushback from parents who did not appreciate their kids applying the lessons at home.

People who actively resist the use of critical thinking will seem cognitively impaired because they are, in fact intentionally impairing their cognition. My intuition here is to blame religious fundamentalism, but that's not a well-researched position.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 17 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

This is from the Texas GOP 2012 education platform.

"We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority."

They backtracked on critical thinking after the outrage it caused with this

  • Munisteri told KVUE, "The platform plank is against a specific type of teaching called 'outcome-based education.'

"The reason why critical thinking is mentioned is some places try to disguise the program of outcome-based education and just re-label it as 'critical thinking.' "

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 6 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

"Good Christian kids need fear-based learning, like we had!"

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[–] Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee 43 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

100%

"We are already providing all the answers you will ever need." -religion

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 18 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Organized religion is, fundamentally — at its very core — based on rejecting critical thought; to "just have faith" in the unknown/unknowable.

It is in no way surprising that it's incompatible with advanced science/evidence-based civilization.

[–] Curious_Canid@lemmy.ca 21 points 17 hours ago

Fundamentalism is certainly a contributing factor, but there are others. Conservatives have been working to cut back on education since the early 80's. Removing critical thinking training was one of the objectives.. Conservative policies are unpopular and are often supported with misrepresentations and outright lies. To succeed, they need a public without the knowledge or skills to realize their arguments are invalid. Unfortunately, they have gone a long way toward accomplishing that.

[–] PillBugTheGreat@lemmy.world 27 points 19 hours ago

Yeah man. When that kid starts asking questions and challenging the family norms, that's the teacher's fault for making their life harder. It isn't a sign that the parent needs to adapt.

Adapting IS a pain in the ass. Some parents don't have the faculties to do it. Some do, but don't after getting done with work. It is truely a generational trauma that the parent has to head off in themselves for it to carry to early aged kids.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 6 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

A lot of parental pushback comes from frustration over the Dunning-Kruger effect, where somebody who learns a little about a subject feels like an expert. This is often where kids are at. If you keep studying the same material you realize how much you don't know, which tends to make you feel ignorant, but as you continue you get better at gauging what level you're at. A lot of it is a matter of maturity. Some parents don't mind that the kids are learning new things, they just aren't very good at parenting it. Highly religious people are more likely to see outside information and analyticals skills as a threat, because yeah they are - for good reason lol.

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[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 19 points 15 hours ago

Most Americans don't shoot very often, even if they own a bunch of guns.

Part of it is that ammo is just expensive. A trip to the range can burn hundreds of dollars in ammo in just a few minutes.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 54 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

I doubt that there are enough people shooting enough guns often enough for it to be more than just trace exposures, it likely must be something else.

[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 42 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

It's regular old religion, shit culture, and propaganda just like it always is.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 5 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Don't forget the deliberate effort by Republicans to nerf the public education system

[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 4 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Nerf is too nice a way to say it. They want to abolish the Department of Education. Their goal is that only the children of the rich will get anything close to a good education.

[–] Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world 4 points 13 hours ago

It's by design. Keep people stupid, and use religion for its intended use, a tool for control.

We the masses are the foundation for their wealth and power.

[–] Wiz@midwest.social 11 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Plus, Gen-X and Boomers were exposed to a lot of lead.

Gasoline types used to be "Regular or Unleaded" and Regular, I think, and required a"special" engine.

[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 9 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Also fungicides/pesticides can cause dementia. One of the first signs of early onset dementia is loss of empathy. So not very surprising many old rural folks have become jaded people

[–] JordanZ@lemmy.world 9 points 16 hours ago

Small aircraft still use 100LL fuel…(LL is low lead)

[–] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 3 points 13 hours ago

Leaded ("regular") gas will destroy a catalytic converter. A car without a cat could usually run leaded or unleaded. Some may knock running unleaded if they're super old or broken in some way. I believe leaded was usually cheaper.

I wouldn't try running leaded in a modern engine even if you removed the cats. God knows what else it would screw up.

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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 18 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

Yes it's actually a pretty ignorant idea. Lead exposure is more likely from car exhaust from leaded gas, which has been severely limited since the 80s.

[–] the_crotch@sh.itjust.works 3 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Lead paint in every house probably didn't help

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 3 points 12 hours ago

Most old lead paint just gets painted over, further sealing it in. It doesn't do anything to you unless you chew on peeling paint or release it into the air by sanding it.

[–] irotsoma@lemmy.world 10 points 13 hours ago

At first glance I thought this post was a bit facetious, but after thinking about it and reviewing some research around people manufacturing the bullets and how it affects them and understanding that detonating them in confined spaces probably is just as if not more problematic. And if you have a job that requires you to do it often, say a cop, does that create even more of an effect? Lead exposure causes a loss of impulse control as well as intelligence effects. Could that be one reason why cops are so much more violent than the average person? I'd love to see a study on lead content of blood in cops, especially ones who murder people they capture, but unfortunately, the NRA is probably too powerful to allow that to happen. And conservatives hate masks, so I doubt it would be easy to convince cops to wear them while practicing.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 87 points 21 hours ago (12 children)

Most Americans don't even own guns. A minority of Americans own lots of guns.

[–] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 46 points 20 hours ago (7 children)

And like 9 out of 10 people who own guns go to the range less than a few times a year.

More than half of gun owners have never gone to a range beyond what might have been part of a state's pistol permitting process.

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[–] ExcursionInversion@lemmy.world 15 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (3 children)

Yeah, but I read something on reddit that says Americans all have guns and love shooting them. So they must all have brain damage

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[–] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 65 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) (3 children)

Post reads like some violently uninformed person making a lot of... I don't want to say racist cuz that's not really right, but similar sentiments about Americans

Y'all are stupid cuz of your guns

Is about as stupid a thought as possible as you're you're claiming we are because of shooting guns and the fact that anyone in the comments is taking it seriously shows y'all have the exact same level of critical thinking skills as those you're insulting

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[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 3 points 12 hours ago

Yeah but you oughta see the other guy

[–] PolyLlamaRous@lemmy.world 36 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

I see where you are going, but you probably should focus less on the guns. Most Americans don't regularly shoot guns, even those that have them. A whole lot also don't own any. But lead is all over in shit like water pipes. Other heavy metals and chemicals are present in higher levels than allowed elsewhere. Also full metal jacket is much more common than it used to be which reduces the lead particles when shooting.

[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 8 points 17 hours ago

As far as lead water pipes go, they're not nearly as dangerous as they're made out to be. The lead quickly bonds to things in the water creating a layer of corrosion which means the lead doesn't really get in the water.

Don't get me wrong, they should still all be replaced.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 64 points 23 hours ago (9 children)

Was the majority of the German voting public lead-poisoned in the 30s? I don't think lead was even put in gas then. Those Germans almost certainly were not lead poisoned, and they put a monster into power.

I get wanting a good explanation, but in reality, it's a simple but unsatisfying explanation. It applies to every country and every population in every era. People are fuckin' stupid. Carlin said it best:

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

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[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 118 points 1 day ago (6 children)

haven't shot a gun in at least 20 years and I'm retarded as shit. so....

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[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 45 points 23 hours ago (4 children)

The vast majority of Americans don’t own/shoot guns. There’s 300 million guns because some people own multiple.

Source: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/

Also, the British literally voted to have a worse economy. We don’t have a monopoly on headassery.

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[–] Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 200 points 1 day ago (9 children)

I think far more people are exposed to lead in water than from guns. Even gun-owning Americans don't go to the range that often.

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[–] nobleshift@lemmy.world 98 points 1 day ago (8 children)

The state of Florida has more lead service pipes (water) than any other state in the US. I've been saying for years that this could be an actual source or at least partial cause of the phenomenon known as "Floridaman".

After having been here in Miami for several years I can 1st hand confirm that most of the people here are not intelligent.

Throw in our appalling educational systems and what capacity for rational independent critical thinking was never developed.

We have been told by TV, advertising, media in general, that people are smart, you're smart, you're a smart person there Joe and Jane America. But they aren't. Most can't distinguish the difference between thinking and feeling, therefore they conflate the two.

It's not a good look I'll grant you that. Hey we might be stupid, but at least we're violent.

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