this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2024

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195

Recall: Microsoft re-launches ‘privacy nightmare’ AI screenshot tool (www.bbc.com)

submitted 1 month ago by tardigrada@beehaw.org to c/technology@beehaw.org

78 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Microsoft says it has “listened to feedback” following a privacy row over a new tool which takes regular screenshots of users’ activity.

It was labelled a potential “privacy nightmare” by critics when it was unveiled in May 2024 - prompting the tech giant to postpone its release. It now plans to relaunch the artificial intelligence (AI) powered tool in November on its new CoPilot+ computers.

[...]

When it initially announced the tool at its developer conference in May, Microsoft said it used AI "to make it possible to access virtually anything you have ever seen on your PC", and likened it to having photographic memory. It said Recall could search through a users' past activity, including their files, photos, emails and browsing history.

[...]

But critics quickly raised concerns, given the quantity of sensitive data the system would harvest, with one expert labelling it a potential “privacy nightmare."

[...]

[Pavan Davuluri, Microsoft's corporate vice president of Windows and devices says] that "Windows offers tools to help you control your privacy and customise what gets saved for you to find later".

However a technical blog about it states that “diagnostic data” from the tool may be shared with the firm depending on individual privacy settings.

[Microsoft says in a blog post that users can remove Recall entirely by using the optional features settings in Windows.]

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[–] ulkesh@beehaw.org 78 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I have been using Linux off and on for 25 years (using the server pretty consistently, but always hedged with the desktop for various reasons). Since Proton and GE-Proton allow every game I want to play to work in Linux, back when Recall was first announced, I decided to finally stop hedging and went all in on the Linux desktop.

And I’m not going back. Everything is working for me and Microsoft can screw off if they think I’m going to allow such blatant spyware in my house. Their telemetry was always suspect, but this is now overt despite any assurances they attempt to make.

Edit>> And their “oh you can uninstall Recall” isn’t trustworthy when they will easily reinstall it with a Windows update (they have done this in the past with other software — notably Edge and Teams).

[–] Butterbee@beehaw.org 39 points 1 month ago (10 children)

What the heck am I going to do when win10 stops getting security patches? I really wish Valve would open up SteamOS to desktops in a public and supported way. That kind of pressure from valve has forced MS to play nice to users in the past. Anyone remember MS demanding that all software for Win8 be sold through the MS store only? And Valve said, fine we'll make our own OS, with blackjack! And Hookers! And steam machines became a thing. Noone bought them. But it didn't matter. It was enough pressure for MS to open up to having 3rd party storefronts again. I feel like we need this again. Also, if linux played nice with anti cheat, and discord I would probably be fine ditching windows but as it stands I'd miss out on playing games with my friends.

Anyway. Privacy Nightmare AI tool bad.

[–] thingsiplay@beehaw.org 29 points 1 month ago (1 children)

SteamOS is focused on gaming, so its not a full replacement for Win10. There are ton of Linux operating systems for general use (even those that SteamOS is based on), without gaming focus and being a "normal" operating system like Windows. And if you want a gaming oriented OS, then there are plenty alternatives already: HoloISO, aiming for a SteamOS like system, and bunch of other: https://github.com/ChimeraOS/chimeraos/wiki/OS-Comparison . So there is no need to wait for SteamOS to open up as a general installation media on desktop.

[–] Butterbee@beehaw.org 17 points 1 month ago (5 children)

I honestly don't want to leave windows. I did use linux for years and I don't want to tinker with my OS or my applications anymore. And you're right SteamOS isn't a general purpose OS. My comment was more in the hopes that if it were pushed out like that, that MS would respond with more consumer friendly approaches to the desktop so I wouldn't HAVE to switch again and deal with the jank. And there will be jank. I know a lot of games work now with proton but how about the Affinity Suite? I found a github that describes how to set up the process in like 18 easy steps so you can begin to install a custom wine for it and just like no I don't want to do that. I want to just keep using my pc that works with the OS I actually paid money for and not get harvested. I am so tired.

[–] subignition@fedia.io 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Very relatable. Unfortunately we just don't live in a world where that's currently possible right now.

I'm planning to switch to some Linux or other at end of support for W10. I'm hoping Proton will take care of most of the games I want to play, and a single-purpose Windows VM will take care of the rest, if that's not too big of a security risk to the host OS.

[–] DaGeek247@fedia.io 15 points 1 month ago

After minor setup, my experience has been incredibly plug and play.

[–] ElectricAirship@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Have you checked out Protondb.com ?

It's been a lifesaver gaming wise. Nice to know most games do and can run on linux, it's usually the ones with some sort of online anti-cheat that don't run.

[–] subignition@fedia.io 7 points 1 month ago

I tend to avoid games that have that sort of anticheat already, but that looks very useful. Thanks for sharing!

[–] UngodlyAudrey@beehaw.org 14 points 1 month ago (3 children)

This is why I never really understand when people go "Just use Linux!!". It isn't a feasible option for everyone. For me, I work full time and I don't have the energy to constantly fix things if they break. When I switched to Linux, I took great pains to ensure that my computer use case is one that could work in Linux, built a computer with parts known to be fine in Linux(including an AMD graphics card) and run Debian Stable on because I wanted something that wouldn't be constantly updating. I'm in a comfy situation now, but I did a lot of planning beforehand that you can't really expect people to do. Like, it's great if we get more people using Linux, but that's not a trivial ask.

[–] Butterbee@beehaw.org 7 points 1 month ago

And that's ok! Like it's totally ok to be the os that it is. And it's ok that it's not for anyone. It's certainly not for my desktop atm. But then it's super amazing at appliance stuff. I've got home assistant on a minipc and truenas on a server. It's ROCK SOLID when it's deployed where it will shine.

[–] Gamers_mate@beehaw.org 5 points 1 month ago

The OS that comes preinstalled will always have the largest market share unfortunately. The average person is not going to install a linux iso to a usb and disable bitlocker and whatever else windows adds to make it harder to change the OS. That is before even setting it up and making sure everything works. It helps if you are friends with someone that is into installing operating systems that can help you but not everyone has that friend. The best linux can do is try and keep microsoft in line. Valve has been doing a lot of the heavy lifting in that regard. It is also why user friendly distros are so important. Somebody who thinks emails and the internet is the same thing is not going to go for Arch.

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[–] FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Also, I too love Linux, but when I ran a dual-boot for six weeks last summer I had to troubleshoot it almost every single day. Because of that I ended up just going back to Windows and making sure I keep it clean with O&O ShutUp. Some systems just aren't compatible with Linux and mine is one of them.

Even when it was working, only approximately half of my games ran on it, so I needed Windows anyway. (Though that may be on me for choosing Mint instead of a more gaming-centric distro.)

I'm going to go back to Linux when get a new system and can have a gaming-dedicated PC, but for now, I'm stuck with Windows.

[–] iLove@programming.dev 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm a software developer and thus tried quite a few distros. Over the years I always switched back to Ubuntu, because it was the least broken. All others just suddenly gave up and had some weird bugs I wasn't able to easily debug. Issues are not worth my free time. And that is the only reason I use Ubuntu alongside Windows. But when support for W10 seized, Windows will be history for me.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org 3 points 1 month ago (11 children)

Issues are not worth my free time.

Exactly. I will say though that I learned a lot, so it'll be easier when I go back. I do plan to give Ubuntu a try as I've read it plays nicer with Nvidia.

My plan is to have a gaming-dedicated system for Windows and a non-gaming system for literally everything else on Linux.

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[–] Gamers_mate@beehaw.org 5 points 1 month ago

I do think linux needs some tools that automate that sort of thing so the 18 steps becomes like 3. It doesn't even need to be by the distro itself but scripts made for it. I managed to make a script that does the same thing as robocopy does on windows to replace a certain rundata file for gamemaker 8.1 since it had that glitch that caused the the rundata to become invalid. I did share that script on my magazine in kbin.run and kbin.social unfortunately both are defunct but I could always share it somewhere else or make a community where people ask for help with installing stuff and people make a script for it like /c/makemeascript or something. I will have a look at the affinity suite and see what steps it takes to see if It is something I am skilled enough to automate.

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[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I use Bazzite (which is steam now but community maintained for more PCs) for my htpc and PopOS for my main PC, both play every game I can throw at it. Maybe it's time to try it out. I started with a windows dual boot and found myself using it less and less, until just a couple months ago I deleted windows completely

[–] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 10 points 1 month ago (5 children)

I would not recommend Bazzite to anyone who already complains about software tinkering in regular distros. Immutable distros are very much incompatible with a lot of shit - basically almost anything that is not in their regular repos or on Flathub, and it is an absolute pain in the ass to get those type of applications running on it.

[–] jlow@beehaw.org 3 points 1 month ago

I agree installing something that isn't super popular can be a bit harder on immutables. But I think especially on Bazzite the toolimg with distrobox is really good. And most non-technical users will probably find all they need as a flatpak anyway.

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[–] themadcodger@kbin.earth 6 points 1 month ago

Seconded to Bazzite. I just installed it on my Steam Deck and I'm surprised at how well it works as a desktop too. Not actually planning on using it as a desktop though it's nice to know the option is there.

[–] Vodulas@beehaw.org 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Discord works great on Linux nowadays. Depending on the game, anti-cheat might also be fine. I play Helldivers 2 without any issues. It's fine if you don't have the oomph, but Pop_OS and Bazzite are both super solid ditros with a gaming focus. I have been using Pop as my only OS on my desktop for months now and really only needed the command line for VPN access and Switch modding

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[–] equivocal@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago

If I were to speculate, they are waiting for the NVK (Open source NVIDIA driver) to be more mature. So, they wouldn't have to release two versions and wouldn't depend on NVIDIA to update their driver to work with software the Steam Deck uses. I.E. Steam Deck uses gamescope for everything outside of Desktop mode. NVIDIA's driver didn't work with it until 2 months after the Steam Deck release. Even though it had existed for years prior.

[–] algorithmae@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 month ago (2 children)

You can keep using win10 without security updates, just be smart about it. Have a good firewall, and just use it for gaming and bills or whatever and you'll be fine

[–] switchboard_pete@fedia.io 41 points 1 month ago (5 children)

You can keep using win10 without security updates

if you want to be part of a botnet in a few years, sure

just be smart about it

being smart about it means not using an unsupported os

[–] thingsiplay@beehaw.org 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

being smart about it means not using an unsupported os

Or do not connect to the internet. I have Windows 98 SE installed in an emulator.. I know it's a bit old, but I don't connect to internet. :D

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[–] thingsiplay@beehaw.org 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

haha in fact I was thinking of installing Windows 95 instead, because I wasn't sure if Win 98 was too new. xD Its all just to play games.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 4 points 1 month ago

Its all just to play games.

Ditto - that W3.11 install is just because of the Windows Entertainment Pack, I love a few of the games in it (like Pipe Dream). I don't even know if it's able to connect to the internet!

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[–] Butterbee@beehaw.org 5 points 1 month ago

I want to give you two likes.

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[–] sleepybisexual@beehaw.org 11 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Linux mint looks like windows and is really easy to use

[–] DdCno1@beehaw.org 7 points 1 month ago (5 children)

... until you inevitably need to use the shell. Linux, no matter the flavor, has been very easy to use in the 22 years that I've tried to use it - until you need to dig ever so slightly deeper for something and then it very much isn't. I started out with a Knoppix live-CD back in 2002. Remember that distro?

[–] kbal@fedia.io 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It looks like your opinions about Linux are outdated and need an update.

[–] DdCno1@beehaw.org 5 points 1 month ago

I've got a Steam Deck and two servers running on Linux.

[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 7 points 1 month ago

I started with a Knoppix-based distro, called Kurumin. KDE 3 was the rage back then!

On your main point: the shell might be hard in the beginning, but for most things that you need to use the shell with, people on the internet already had the same issue and shared how to do it. Unless you're actively trying to make something different, like I did with my audio switching script.

And even the sort of situation that you need to use the shell for decreased by a lot from back then to now.

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[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Besides what other users said: if you feel comfortable with SteamOS you might want to give EndeavourOS and Manjaro a check - all three distros are based on Arch Linux, and while Arch is geared towards experienced users the later two try to "sell" it towards a wider audience.

[–] IrritableOcelot@beehaw.org 11 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Oh my god if you are a new user please do not go straight to Arch or Manjaro. By far the two distros most likely to breaky irreparably.

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[–] Gamers_mate@beehaw.org 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Would games with anticheat work in a windows 10 vm? I am not interested in games that go out of their way to not work in wine but if it works in a vm of windows 10 you might be able to use that for gaming and whatever host os for your web browser emails etc.

[–] bokster@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No. They don't and they wouldn't.

[–] Gamers_mate@beehaw.org 6 points 1 month ago

damn that sucks anticheat has gotten out of hand.

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[–] GabeMoralesVR@mastodon.gamedev.place 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

@Butterbee @tardigrada steamos is just manjaro with steam installed.

[–] sebsch@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 month ago

Fortunately valve did not use the System Manjaro provides. This would have been a very stupid business decision.

StreamOS is plain Arch

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[–] TheLastOfHisName@beehaw.org 14 points 1 month ago

The whole Recall thing is what finally made me get off my lazy ass and make the jump to Linux. I chose PopOS, and I've been very impressed with the out-of-the-box experience. Between Steam and Lutris, I can play just about any game I want to.

It feels like I actually own my laptop now.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 13 points 1 month ago

"When asked for further comment Microsoft fucknuts replied with: It's the best part of being a monopoly in the PC market. Don't like what we're doing? Where's the average user going to go, Linux? BWAHAHAHAHA! Hey normies, get fucked and feed my bank account! He then spat on the reporter and gave a small child the middle finger."

[–] Feddinat0r 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Thanks, ill stick with snipping tool

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[–] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

MS doesn't realize how close they are to being disposable to gamers. If a few more game companies made their catalogs linux-native, they'd be toast.

Lots of people would be shocked just how many games offer linux-native binaries, not just windows ones that work with proton.

[–] rivalary@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 month ago

For the time being, Proton is good enough for me. I think devs/publishers refusing to enable their chosen anticheat to work with Proton is what is holding things back now for tech people. For other people, there's even bigger challenges, and I doubt they even read up on these "tech nightmares" so they're good with just continuing on with Windows.

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