this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024

331 points (98.5% liked)

World News

39127 readers

2909 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world

Recommendations

How to spot Misinformation and Propaganda

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

quinten@lemmy.world

NewsAutoMod@lemmy.world

jordanlund@lemmy.world

Tenthrow@lemmy.world

little_cow@lemmy.world

lemmyAtom@lemmy.world

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world

331

Russia keeps trying to replace the bridges that Ukraine destroys. Ukraine is taking out those, too. (www.businessinsider.com)

submitted 3 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

36 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Ukraine appears to be targeting Russian attempts to build temporary bridges in Kursk.
This comes after 3 permanent bridges were reportedly destroyed by Ukraine.
Ukraine looks to be trying to cut off Russian forces in the region.

all 37 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 66 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Ukrainian forces were "striking pontoon bridges and engineering equipment in the western part of their operational zone

These engineers have a shit job if the military is forcing them to work under fire. Usually you try to defend the less armed part of the military (medics, command, engineers, supply) because that's what really powers the organization. If you can't defend your weak spots, you are going to lose.

[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 45 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Russia has proven that it can't protect weak points because the entire military is a weak point. Can't wait to see the military parade in May.

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Can’t wait to see the military parade in May.

The parade with the one tank left in Russia?

[–] occhionaut@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Its actually gonna be a division of convincing-looking conscripts holding up cardboard cutouts, making vehicle noises and shaking

[–] itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

shaking in fear?

[–] occhionaut@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Is not fear! Is great Russian acting!! See? Even acting oil spills in pant!

[–] Tja@programming.dev 3 points 3 months ago

The parade with one talk was already done Next one will be on zoom.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

These engineers have a shit job if the military is forcing them to work under fire.

If Russia had the ability to force Ukrainian artillery and airpower out of range of the rivers, which is probably what it'd take to keep said engineers from having to work under fire, then I suspect that there wouldn't be a need for a cross-river evacuation in the first place.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 9 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Well I'm not an expert, but it's possible to use cruise missiles and long range bombers to provide cover for the few days it might take to evacuate. Maybe they are busy blowing up apartment buildings and hospitals though.

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago (2 children)

The issue with cruise missiles and bombers as a response to artillery fire is the response time and air defences.

A cruise missile launched from well within Russia takes long enough to reach the target that mobile artillery has sufficient time to get out. You also need a significant amount of missiles if you want to get any through the air defences.

Bombers struggle to get in range for conventional bombs without being shot down. They also have the issue of response time.

Cruise missiles and bombers are more suited to rather stationary targets, like a command Center, FOB, strongpoint or trench system.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I think people are used to the last couple of decades of Western powers (especially the "super" one) facing underequip militias or 3rd World armies with 4 generations-old equipment.

If you don't "control the skies" - which means the other side either never had long range AA or all of it got taken out - options like high altitude bombers and cruise missiles, that just worked unimpeded in places like Afghanistan and Yemen (so the only viable strategy for the other side was "don't get spotted", which highly limits the whole " bomb the other side's bridges") don't actually work all that well.

Militarily Ukraine is nothing at all like Afghanistan: they started already having S300 and meanwhile they've received even better AA systems from the West such as Patriots, plus they have to expertise to make and maintain their own modern(ish) military hardware since they were one of the prime designers and makers of it back in Soviet times, so strategies involving air power against them won't at all work the same (cruise missiles have to be used in large numbers with low rates of success, especially in the most well protected areas like Kyiv, bombers have to stand 100s of kms from the Ukrainian airspace otherwise they'll be dodging long range AA missiles).

This is actually a modern day version of a the traditional war between two equivalent nations, not asymmetric warfare like every single conflict the US has been involved in since WWII or a the least Korea.

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago (2 children)

Ok then, fighter-bombers or more artillery. If the bridge is in range of Ukrainian drones, then the drone base station is in range of counter fire.

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think you're overestimating the staging and emplacement for a drone attack of these types. They don't need a static "drone base station."

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Like I said, I'm not an expert but I think big drones that can take down a bridge aren't piloted by two dudes in a bush.

[–] Johanno 4 points 3 months ago

They are probably controlled by one dude in a bush.

Of course you need a base for preparation, but you can drive out to the front and start the drone there.

[–] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

The currently most viable counter to artillery in Ukraine today appears to be either fpv drones, which have relatively short range and limited payloads, or counter-battery radar + artillery, which exposes your artillery by putting it in range of enemy artillery.

Ukraine typically has more accurate artillery than Russia, and seems to win more artillery duels, but of course still has an issue because of Russias huge volume of guns.

Targeting the drone operators is definitely something both sides do- they were considered priority targets last time I heard someone mention it. The issue, as someone else pointed out, is locating and hitting a small, highly mobile person or group that can operate from behind cover and concealment. That turns out to be pretty hard. Just consider that an infantryman's primary survival strategy is "stay hidden when you can, covered when you can, and move as fast as possible when exposed", and that drone operators are doing exactly that, while also not needing to stick their head out to be effective.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 6 points 3 months ago

Cruise missiles and heavy bombers are strategic weapons and can't really directly cover a retreat. They are good against power plants and bridges, not Serhiy with a Dragunov picking your guys off in the undergrowth.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 3 months ago

Saw the footage a few days ago, they actually used drones for this too. Not the bridges but the construction vehicles. Blew them up while they were building it.

[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 21 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I wonder if this is another one of those perfect areas to waste Russian resources. I doubt they have an endless supply of temporary bridge materials and engineers to build them.

[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 17 points 3 months ago

Logistics wins wars. You could mail a package from Ohio and it would end up in Afghanistan at some soldiers hooch (send white lighters and socks). Russians throw bodies at the fight and trade space for time, they are getting a small taste of NATO/US logistics and now the UA is on the offense.

[–] JesusSon@lemmy.world 17 points 3 months ago (2 children)

"It's still up...no it aint" - Some Russian General

[–] jewbacca117@lemmy.world 16 points 3 months ago (1 children)

"Artillery never hits the same spot twice" - Same Russian General

[–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 13 points 3 months ago

He only said it once though. The second time was just a crater where he stood.

[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 2 points 3 months ago

I know you don't mean it this way but I can't resist. https://youtu.be/aw_wouXS48U?t=23

[–] shiroininja@lemmy.world 17 points 3 months ago

That’s gotta be so demoralizing Lmao

[–] Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 14 points 3 months ago

It must make for very exciting bridge crossings. You'd never quite know if you'll make it to the other side.

[–] Bonesince1997@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago

3 "permanent" bridges

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Didn't Russia have a fuckton of amphibious APCs and IFVs and snorkels for tanks and whatever? Did they lose all of that?

[–] Badeendje@lemmy.world 15 points 3 months ago

They need the bridge for logistics. Fuel, Food, Water, munitions. It's all dandy if you can get a couple of these war machines across, but if you cannot resupply them sufficiently they are just heavy trailers for ukranians farmers.

[–] MojoMcJojo@lemmy.world 6 points 3 months ago

Military & Defense Russia keeps trying to replace the bridges that Ukraine destroys. Ukraine is taking out those, too. Mia Jankowicz Aug 22, 2024, 8:47 AM EDT

A screenshot from drone video shared by Ukrainian special operations forces on August 21, 2024. It appears to show engineering equipment attempting to lay down a pontoon bridge platform on the Seym River, in Kursk, Western Russia, amid Ukraine's incursion into the region.

Special Operations Forces of Ukraine/Telegram Ukraine says it is destroying Russian pontoon bridges in Kursk before they can even be constructed.

On Wednesday, Ukrainian special forces released a video compilation that appeared to show attacks on several Russian efforts to build pontoons, or temporary floating bridges.

"Where do Russian pontoon bridges 'disappear' in the Kursk region?" wrote Ukraine's Special Operations Forces Telegram account, adding that its soldiers "accurately destroy them," according to Reuters' translation.

The claim comes after reports that Ukrainian forces had destroyed three permanent bridges over the Seym river in the western Russian region, in an apparent effort to isolate Russian forces there.

The footage, which Business Insider was unable to verify, was shared on the 16th day of Ukraine's incursion into Russian territory.

As of Monday, Ukrainian forces were "striking pontoon bridges and engineering equipment in the western part of their operational zone in the Glushkovo district," the Ukrainian think tank the Centre for Defence Strategies reported.

Satellite imagery seen by the Associated Press showed pontoons at two locations along the Seym.

One of them, between Glushkovo and Zvannoye, was visible in the imagery as of Sunday — but by Monday it had disappeared, with smoke rising nearby, the news agency reported.

The images were shared on X by Radio Free Europe reporter Mark Krutov:

A low-res @planet satellite image taken today, Aug. 19th, shows that the Russian pontoon bridge between Zvannoye and Glushkovo in Kursk oblast is gone, with smoke rising 500 meters away from where it used to be, on the 'Russian' bank. Makes sense if we speak about the withdrawal. pic.twitter.com/YxtaNeyOzh

— Mark Krutov (@kromark) August 19, 2024 Ukraine says it has captured just under 500 square miles of territory in Kursk, and has set up a military headquarters there, in a sign that it intends to dig in for a while.

On Sunday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he intended to create a buffer zone in the region.

The bridges destroyed so far are all along the Seym; their destruction appears to be an attempt to pin Russian troops between Ukrainian-controlled territory, the Ukrainian border, and the river, the AP reported.

The footage shared by Ukraine's special forces on Wednesday appeared to show drones targeting engineering equipment on the banks of the Seym being used to lay down the temporary bridges.

Other clips show vehicles — presumably carrying the necessary equipment — also being taken out by drones.

[–] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Soviet security strategy always relied on maintenance of a buffer zone in which to contain any fighting. This war was lost the minute the Budapest accords were signed.

[–] OlinOfTheHillPeople@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Huh?

[–] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm talking about Russia's inability to defend territory.

[–] OlinOfTheHillPeople@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

I don't understand what you mean in regards to the Budapest Accords and a hypothetical buffer zone.

[–] geography082@lemm.ee -4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

If you dig deep deep inside the dirt and rocks , eventually you will find the Balrog.