this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2024
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Microblog Memes

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[–] Omgboom@lemmy.zip 82 points 1 month ago (5 children)

...We've committed a multi-thousand year long genocide against dogs, breeding them for traits that we find useful, and usually killing the puppies that don't possess useful traits...

[–] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 91 points 1 month ago

So... We've treated them as equals for millennia? That tracks.

[–] FinalRemix@lemmy.world 43 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Awww, it can hardly breathe. Look how cute and helpless it is!

[–] Shou@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Maltese covered in tumors at 8 years old? That's totally normal. Just like the cancer it inevitably will develop.

Meanwhile feral dog breeds can live up to 17 years just like wild wolves do. Though in the wild, the average lifespan is 5 years. Because of disease or injury.

[–] Poem_for_your_sprog@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

I love my healthy mutt.

[–] AnalogyAddict@lemmy.world 34 points 1 month ago (2 children)

That's not genocide, that's eugenics. Just as bad.

[–] MotoAsh@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

Sorry to disappoint you, but even just picking your partner off of looks is literally a form of eugenics if you preach being attracted to your partner... Parents who decide to abort a fetus with a terminal illness is ALSO literally and directly eugenics.

Eugenics itself isn't bad, it's just certain morons think THEY deserve to decide such things for and about others.

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[–] Portosian@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Eugenics is not inherently bad, it's just frequently used as an excuse to do really evil shit.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

There's personal and systemic eugenics. Systemic eugenics will always be bad.

Personal... Well, you're not obligated to have children you don't want either.

[–] JayDee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Eugenics is bad because it's based on fundamentally incorrect ideas about how genetics plays into personal development. Galton drew specifically upon the fundamentally incorrect ideas of scientific racism, and wrote about Eugenics as being a means to better improve the superior races. Galton argued that things like poverty and mass suffering could have been solved this way, essentially arguing that it was the personal incompetence of the less fortunate which lead them into misfortune (also fundamentally incorrect).

Even if you drop the baggage of scientific racism, Eugenics is still conceptually ableist, choosing to eliminate those we deem disabled rather than finding solutions to better their lives.

On top of that, we were kind of hinging on sequencing the human genome giving us the insight to how genetic diseases work, the single possible case that eugenic thought might have had a use in. This has since fallen through. Further research into genetics has also demonstrated just how unreadable DNA is right now. We are still nowhere near being able to predict most genetic diseases based on the genetics of a couple.

I also cannot think of a single thing that eugenics implies should be done that isn't absolutely evil. I'd argue that things that only encourage evil actions are themselves evil.

[–] HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The concept of changing the species through genetic manipulation with intention as opposed to wild flailings of evolution (which is why I would consider to be eugenics) is not inherently evil, nor does it require anything horrible. As the poster above said, it is just often used as an excuse to do horrible things.

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[–] ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That last part may need a bit of citation, but yes modern breed standardization has unfortunately crippled many of the poor creatures from birth.

Adopt rescues, people! It's usually super cheap and they're almost always healthier dogs anyway.

[–] Omgboom@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 month ago

I presume you meant to prepend these citations with your own summation, something along the lines of: "It's a spectrum, not a point", etc al?

[–] Omega_Man@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

This might be my favorite rage bait of all time. Lol

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I mean, it's also true, so is it really bait then?

Only in very broad strokes.

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[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 56 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Its the cats that we don't deserve.

They just happen, they adopt us, use us as slaves, indoctrinate us in a cat worshipping cult, ...

[–] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Cats are ancient aliens. That's why Egyptians worshipped them, that's why their pee glows and why their scratches and bites are so toxic. They're not of this earth. Don't trust them! They're trying to take over and they're being allowed to win!!

[–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If wishing for an alien feline overlord is wrong, I don't want to be right!

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[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago

Oh noooo, it's too late!!

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[–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I, for one, welcome our old feline overlords.

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[–] whome@discuss.tchncs.de 54 points 1 month ago (2 children)

If you leave out the fact that we also breed them till their eyes pop out of their sockets, their brains don't fit in their skulls, they are in constant fear of suffocating. Then yes

[–] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They're either this or well built, intelligent, and filled anxiety over the impending collapse of the galaxy into a black hole. "What was that?! A small tear in the fabric of the space time continuum? Demons? Maybe the cat next door is finally going to murder all of us! Ok, probably not. But maybe I should bark at whatever it is just in case. "

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[–] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 42 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Those "monsters" from the dark were the real heroes back when — braving the orange flickering light that instinctually meant death to sneak scraps from the stabby skin-wearers... Sounds like the original D&D story to me, NGL.

[–] Num10ck@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

domesticating wolves by campfire with just body language would be a bad ass RPG VR game

[–] randomdeadguy@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Or from the wolf's perspective as dlc: Domesticate the skin-walker

[–] otter@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 month ago

That's what cats've done, TBF. They even taught themselves to sound like our babies! Not to mention, contracted a bio-parasite to further tilt our civilization to their whims...

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[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 34 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I mean, that's what we want to believe, that it all started with someone feeding a hungry wolf, but knowing humanity it's just as possible it started with a captured wolf and copious amounts of animal abuse.

[–] Azzu@lemm.ee 37 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

It's most likely that dogs/wolves just kept eating our waste, staying close to us, and after initial fights humans noticed the dogs/wolves are not being a threat, thus letting them do their thing and observing them.

Then humans eventually figured out that by observing dogs and their reactions, they could see if dogs smelled/heard something which they couldn't. And then started to exploit that.

[–] Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)

wolves just kept eating our waste

You may wanna edit this to say trash, it sounds like you're saying wolves followed us around eating our shit, which afaik isn't a theory for dog domestication.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Technically garbage rather than trash, if we're being pedantic

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[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 28 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Wow, this is the least fun group on the internet. These comments...

[–] 0ops@lemm.ee 9 points 1 month ago

Yikes, you're right. Should've skipped. Fuckin hell guys

[–] Verserk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago

The more I browse lemmy the more it feels true

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

But then what about, say, cows? They were domesticated too, but to the extent that they subjectively like and trust humans (and I've seen very friendly cows) they have been deceived, with very few exceptions. Maybe we deserve them in the purely material sense since they are the products of our labor, but they don't deserve us...

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Perhaps not individually - although even there, what is the average lifespan of a cow in the wild? - but collectively there have been far more cow offspring than there would have been if they had not been domesticated.

Also, looking at every other wild species that we've eradicated, they seem to have decided to get in on our good side, which since they aren't extinct may have worked out well for them.

And even individually, if they live >3x longer, in a more comfortable environment where food is provided routinely... it's arguably not as bad a trade-off as it first appears.

A lifetime of slavery ending in death, or try to outcompete the species that invented guns? We might each make a different choice, but they made theirs.

[–] DivineDev@kbin.run 14 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I have heard that argument for animal husbandry, but in today's world the comfortable environment is provided to only a tiny fraction of livestock. If I had the choice to either be a random pig or chicken nowadays, or just nothingness, I rather not exist at all. What's the point of living 3 times longer when you hardly have enough space to even turn around and stand in your own shit? If anything, the longer life span makes it worse.

[–] samus12345@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

Cow: I want my species to thrive in number!

monkey's paw finger curls

[–] OpenStars@discuss.online 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Damn... good point.

I was even all set to argue back with like: each individual cow makes their own choice, as in the ones who fight back against the system get killed, whereas those who simply accept it as-is continue to exist, leading us to today where those who are left are those who are genetically predisposed to not fight (but theoretically, they could still fight back?). And that even before we delved into direct genetic manipulation, to increase the meat-to-effort ratio. Maybe one day we'll design cows that just walk directly into our mouths and beg us to chew them?

So humans in essence foundationally altered what a "cow" even is - like imagine a wild boar that humans actually feared, vs. today's mere "pigs". What is left is a shadow of the former glory that the true bovine herbivore ruminant was in its prime heyday. i.e. nobody alive to today has ever seen a true "cow" (unless like boars there is some wild variant somewhere, not descendants of some escapee but a truly untouched species?).

That's all on us. As people elsewhere are saying, we treat cows almost as bad as we treat humans beings.

Perhaps that is why shows like The Matrix are so horrifying - it's what we would do (/ are already doing), if the situation were reversed.

[–] DivineDev@kbin.run 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hey, it's great you contemplated my point this much, I do not expect this when arguing online :) While I would prefer there to be less animal suffering, I don't think demand for meat is going away anytime soon, but I think it is realistic for lab grown meat to replace actually raising the entire cow in the not too distant future, making this discussion finally obsolete. In the sequel to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy there are actually some form of livestock that actively want to be eaten and even recommend which parts of them are most delicious. The Matrix comparison is great as well, I did not think of that yet.

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[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

This is fiercely wholesome

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[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

*Alien ship arrives into orbit. It's powerful energy weapons aimed at major population centers.*

Alien Ship: "Attention experiment 2648.996. It has been 50,000 orbits since your last status report. Name one good thing you have accomplished since we allowed you free reign over this planet."

*Humans hold their beloved dogs as they look up in fear. Dogs lovingly lick their humans.*

Alien Ship: "Well done 2648.996. Well done."

[–] wren@feddit.uk 5 points 1 month ago

all you need to know is that dogs are fluffye! no need to look at the other comments :)!

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

More like we were kind to the helpless pups that were left over after we slaughtered the adults. Unless we were hungry, of course.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago

It would be very difficult to keep that population stable, especially if one is starting from scratch and knows nothing about breeding dogs.

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