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"...unless something significant happens..."
Yeah, like all of us voting.
All of us were always going to vote... Let's be honest. But that's not going to be enough. Biden needs millions of young progressives to turn up and vote for him, but to get them to do that, he's going to need to start meeting them halfway, instead of continuing to meet Republicans/fascists halfway.
If they choose the vote for trump with more steps by not voting blue, I hold them fully accountable. Sorry.
Because it couldn't possibly be that we ALL need to compromise to make this work. Biden, as far as I'm concerned, did in fact meet us at least part way. Not even close to where I'd want but not nothing either. And in doing so probably alienated more conservative voters. So they didn't get everything they wanted and neither did we. But in the process we all got some of what what we wanted.
If "kids these days" can't figure out that democracy is fundamentally a compromise in which nobody is 100% happy then truly we're fucked.
When did megacorps, billionaires and insider trading political dynasties ever have to compromise?
For starters, some random examples would include state minimum wage laws, environmental regulations (e.g. banning drilling in the arctic, banning certain chemicals, etc), and labor protections generally.
You see, when most people think of "compromise", they think of meeting halfway... When liberals and their corporate owners think of "compromise" they think "I give an inch, you give a mile"
Young people still have some fight in them (and they're brains are still working on understanding long term consequences), so often times they see their great grandpa pacifying the rich and mostly ignoring them and they think, fuck that, I'd rather fight.
Which would be great if "fight" meant "run for office and vote". But really it means "shake fists angrily and complain online".
Go ahead folks, downvote me. But you know it's true and the date supports it.
Eh... Bernie got a shit ton of them out fighting for real... They just need a leader to fight for
Oh yes, they did a great job "fighting" by showing up at rallies and make noise. Lot's of fist shaking going on. But as soon as it came time to show up to vote a fuckload didn't.
But they WOULD have shown up to vote for Bernie. And all those blue no matter who Clinton voters also would have shown up. And we'd have had Bernie instead of Trump. Instead, Clinton spit in their faces, gaslit them, chased the right (who most of these people consider to truly be the enemy )and then still had the audacity to demand their vote.
But don't diminish the real fighting they actually did. They participated in one of the largest and most robust field programs US politics has seen since the civil rights movement. They knocked on millions of doors and spoke to millions of people. Often times not just pushing Bernie, but also pushing for downballot Dems as well. It's a level of engagement effort most campaigns never even attempt
Except they didn't. End of story.
No, the story ends with King Donald Trump.
Oh look, a non-sequitur. How unique and edgy.
The point is noone cares why the dems went towards the corporate right. Noone cares if Bernie got kneecapped or had no chance to begin with.
We can argue back and forth as long as we go crazy whether a more progressive administration would have been realistic.
The cold hard truth is a US dictatorship now is. It's not edgy, it's sad is what it is. Hillary got us Trump, and Biden will get us Trump.
LOL. I can't tell if it's that your are completely ignorant or just exaggerating because you think somehow that will make your point "stronger".
It doesn't. You just sound ridiculous.
Care to argue the point?
The US is not a dictatorship. Full stop.
Not yet. But Trump might make it one. That's my point, electing someone that makes the US more equitable is unrealistic, but electing someone who will make it a dictatorship is not unrealistic.
I don't think you have a point. Or if you do, it's fleeting and highly variable.
Good bye.
The people Biden needs to turn up, aren't paying attention. They're not not showing up because they're pissed. They're not going to show up because nothing about politics has caught their attention. They show up when something excites them. Dems know that, but still keep going for the least exciting candidates they can find. That's on the DNC and Biden.
I mean I can somewhat relate. When I don't get chocolate ice cream and only vanilla is offered I also get pissed and refuse to eat any ice cream at all.
Especially if you were promised ice cream the last 4 times you agreed to come to the party, and once again you're being told "sorry, all the ice cream is for the Nazis. Best we can do for you is this cone full of dog shit. What do you mean you're leaving? Don't you know YOU'LL be the one letting the Nazis win?? How dare you not take this cone of shit and be happy!"
what is shit for you? Is your comfortable home not large enough? Is your TV only 65" instead of 75"? Is your car older than you'd like? Did you have to eat rice and beans more than once a month?
Shit for me is every 4 years being told "just vote for us this time and we'll fix the election system so this doesn't keep happening," and then not even attempting to fix it... But yes all that other stuff too I guess
What though? What keeps happening? I'm trying to ask what specifically is so bad for you personally about Democratic Party administrations?
Well, costs keep rising while my pay stays the same. I'm in mental health care, so in general not enough is being done to help with the mental health crisis we're facing, and what is being done is clearly to increase pharmaceutical company's profits more than to help people, so that makes my job harder. The fact that at no point have the Dems ever actually tried to unfuck our election system so I have to go through this nonsense every few years. More than 100k in Student loans that I can't scrub with bankruptcy, thanks Biden. Medical bills that should be covered by single payer. And believe it or not, some people care about what happens to other people too... So there's the genocide which isn't actually a new thing, Dems have been supporting it for decades. The bullshit at the border. The drone wars killing innocent people everywhere. Education is fucked. Abortion rights are fucked. Dems never saw an increased military budget they didn't like, while they continue to allow social services to be cut. Billionaires haven't been taxed out of existence. On and on.
People tend to extrapolate that since some things are broadly fucked everything is fucked for them personally, forgetting that on a personal level for most people who would be posting on Lemmy, there are many things to be thankful for and many things that have gone right. The clear and obvious wealth disparity (for example) may be sickening and outrageous but that ends up usually being a question of degree, which is why I joke that that people are really complaining that their TV isn't big enough.
And then we shoot ourselves in the feet by assuming that because of this generalized feeling of "bad" and "unjust" that there is no path forward and that no progress has been made. This is factually incorrect and easy to disprove, but people get mired in the "this sucks" phase, leading to angry fist waving without action. tl;dr people love to complain but are too lazy and myopic to do anything about their complaints.
Eh... I'll agree to some extent... Though I think people are also deliberately restricted from taking meaningful action. And after 40 years of the center teaming up with the right instead of the left, when teaming up left would mean almost certain victory, I think many people are disillusioned and burnt out. They don't see a way of ever being represented, given the current system, so they've given up on the system. The only way for someone to get them off the couch is to come with a plan to change the system completely.
Except it demonstrably doesn't. If that were so Bernie would have won overwhelmingly in the primary. Pretty much all the polling and research suggests that the majority of US voters are pretty center or center-left, with dems being pretty evenly split between center/moderate and progressive. (Eg https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/the-partisanship-and-ideology-of-american-voters/)
Saying "if we were just more left wing" completely ignores this reality. It's frankly nonsense.
If you take a look at this chart from the article you sent, it sums things up pretty well. Bernie vs Clinton was just the blue. If all the liberals voted and all the progressives voted, Clinton wins. Obviously not all registered voters voted in the primary, but it still would have been pretty close. Also I won't get into the fact that Clinton's minions absolutely had their thumb on the scale.
However if you recognize that pretty much all the reds always vote, and the light blues always vote, then that leaves progressives (dark blues) left to sway. Except it's just a matter of how many you can get to show up. IF they do show up, they vote blue. The Dems have to choose between dark blue and light red. They seem to think they can peel off more red than they could ever get dark blue. But they've never been able to peel off more than a percent or two... Meanwhile they basically tell the much larger group of dark blues to shut up and vote for them without ever actually courting them. In the end though... The difference between an R win and a D win comes down to how many progressives actually show up. That's it.
So let me get this straight. Somehow you think that if Clinton went left she'd gain more progressives but NOT lose conservatives/moderates/independents? That is just not the way it works. tl;dr they are trying to thread the needle.
No, it comes down to how many voters vote for one or the other. As in all voters.
I think she/Biden/Dems would gain more progressives than they would lose conservatives/moderates/independents... absolutely. The types of people who vote for Clinton/Biden ALWAYS vote... And they sure as shit aren't going to vote for Trump or even stay home. They will vote for whoever is the Dem nominee every time. Which means a progressive would also get those votes. Maybe, big maybe, some of the more conservative Dems would choose Trump over Bernie, but I highly doubt it.
So everyone who would vote for Biden, would also vote for Bernie, but not everyone who would vote for Bernie would vote for Biden. The math isn't that hard.
You think. Despite not having any data, not doing any real research and not being familiar with how campaigns are run.
Pure speculation not borne out by the 2016 election results.
You aren't doing math. You are going with your gut and guessing.
The report you linked to shows what I'm saying. You should read it.
Do you really think there are millions of people out there thinking "well I'll vote for Biden, but it's a close call... If it wasn't Joe then I'd vote for Trump"? Who do you think is actually on the fence between Trump and Biden? No one... The fence is full of people deciding between showing up and not showing up. If we can get them to show up, they'll vote against Trump.
The 2016 primary has nothing to do with what's happening now (other than Clinton getting us into this whole mess with her arrogance and hubris).
The report you linked to shows what I'm saying. You should give it a read sometime. As I did... Weeks ago... Because I do plenty of research. I'm familiar with how campaigns are run.
You really think there's millions of people out there on the fence between Biden and Trump? Like "I know I'm going to vote, but I just can't decide who I like better, Trump or Biden".. or maybe you think there's tons of people who are like "I'll definitely vote for Biden because Trump is such a threat, but if it was someone like Bernie, no way, suddenly Trump doesn't seem like that much of a threat." That just doesn't exist. The people on the fence this election are deciding whether or not to show up at all. If they show up they'll vote against Trump, but the more they can believe in who they're voting for the more likely they are to actually show up.
No it doesn't. And instead of explaining why you think that you just keep goin on and on repeating the same speculation
Have a nice day.
Sure, but Democrats seem very easy to discourage into not voting compared to conservatives.
One is a cult of press-stamped NPCs, the other is a massively varied collection of people that want everything their way or they are taking their ball and going home. It is a rough position to be in when your party has to cover "everyone that isn't a conservative"...it's a huge majority of people to gather up under one umbrella.
Are you easily discouraged? Do you stamp your feet an yell when you don't get 100% your way, 100% of the time? Or do you recognize that other people exist and have different needs and wants?
It's a fact that Democrats and progressives don't show up as consistently to vote as conservatives. It's just not part of the culture like it is for conservatives.
Trump is a convicted felon and it does not make a difference for his voters. Biden has a bad debate and Democrats are fleeing left and right. That's how you lose elections.
Oh well I guess just don't bother to vote then since clearly we're gonna lose
/s