this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2024
764 points (98.7% liked)

politics

19126 readers
2371 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

First of all walmart doesnt have to do this, they are choosing to.

Second, last time trump did tariffs prices went up in the following months, and then returned back to baseline following that.

There will be a reactionary period once they are placed. Walmart will either shift to buying more locally to maintain the most profit they can, or a competitor will undercut them.

[–] MrMcGasion@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Shifting to buying more locally can work when there are local businesses that can ramp up production easily to meet demand, it doesn't work when there is no local production that can be easily expanded, or when there aren't enough local resources to supply local manufacturing (for example lithium for battery production)

Also, trade has been our leverage keeping China in check, we need their stuff, and they need our money, so we get along. If suddenly we say "we don't want your stuff anymore, and we're not giving you our money" they're gonna turn around and sell more to India, Russia, and Europe. They'll be fine, but we'll both lose our leverage and toilet our economy for at least a decade while we try to recover from shooting ourselves in the leg.

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I think thats awfully simplistic but if you can point me to some source that goes into the details of what you are predicting I'd be happy to read it.

[–] MrMcGasion@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Not sure if this is at all what you are asking for, but here goes:

As to the first bit I won't provide as many sources as I'm not finding many that bring it all together in an understandable way, it's basic economics of supply and demand. Here's a video that explains some of the basics of supply, demand, and tariffs (it's a bit jargon-filled, but I'm not finding much that strikes a good balance between understandability and oversimplification: https://youtu.be/3pSysspeCxY?si=6IIGFVuaTyObq5sl

In addition to the usual supply and demand changes that Tariffs bring, throughout the 80s, 90s, and 2000s a lot of US manufacturing was moved out of the country, to countries with cheaper labor. Often physically transporting the production line equipment from the US to China where labor was cheaper. So in most of those instances, our local production capability was reduced, and getting it back will require rebuilding it from the ground up (which oftentimes takes years). And that's industries where we have the natural resources (and harvesting/mining facilities) to supply local manufacturing, where we have to spin those industries back up it could take longer.

Moving on to the trade leverage with China. I'll try not to get too bogged-down with the history, but the US is China's biggest "customer" in percentage of their exports bought. But considering our rivalry, they've been wanting to change this for years, and are making good progress in becoming less dependent on the US buying their exports. In 2004, the US bought 21% of China's exports https://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/Country/CHN/Year/2004/Summarytext and in 2023, even though the US imported more from China than 20 years ago, we only bought ~15% of their exports https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports-by-country - we're still their largest trade partner, but they have done a lot of work to be less-dependent on US trade.

Along with this, there's also a bit of a rivalry between the G7 (America, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and the UK) and BRICS (Brasil, Russia, India, China and South Africa). There's a lot of complicated geopolitics in this, but the part that's relevant to trade is that the GDP of those nations has now surpassed the G7 nations: Here is a graph comparing the GDP of the G7 to BRICS countries over time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS#/media/File%3ABRICS_AND_G7.svg Essentially China now has other friends, that go to a different school (and they're actually real). And their new friends have money, want what China's selling, and aren't as likely to try to tell China what to do.

With regard specifically to the US relationship with China there is this from Biden's Tariffs from 6 months ago which contrasts China's response now to their response in 2018 when we had more trade leverage. https://www.reuters.com/markets/what-doesnt-kill-you-makes-you-stronger-china-trolls-new-us-tariffs-2024-05-15/

Here is a more recent article where a Chinese official says the the tariffs will backfire on the US https://apnews.com/article/china-economy-tariffs-us-commerce-trump-843769cd7175011d8e34be32cc8d045f

On one hand, less dependence on Chinese manufacturing by the US might be a good thing (one example I've seen of this is as drone warfare becomes more common, the US being reliant on China manufacturing the batteries isn't ideal). But there's a smart way to go about it (things like the CHIPS act that incentivize industries to move manufacturing to the US). If we don't get manufacturing back before implementing tariffs we won't have enough local supply to meet demand and prices across the board will go up.

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 1 points 8 hours ago

I think I agree with all that, although I dont think China or America needs each other at this point.

I agree it would be ideal to have things prepared for when tariffs hit and companies are free to do that. They have some lead time now, and they could have prepared plans for this in advance as well.

If prices do go up, it will be because most companies choose to raise the price and/or drag their feet. People are increasingly critical of corporations these days, I dont think they will get off as easy as last time.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Always fair to ask for sources, but what exactly do you want to see here? Or what part are you contesting?

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 1 points 8 hours ago

The lack of specificity. They already replied with more detail and I largely agree, although I simply dont think its a permanent harm if nonessential goods rise in price and then drop over a period of a year or two.

[–] zergtoshi@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Buying local is an option to evade paying tariffs on imported goods.
But what do you do if buying local is no real option?
I'm thinking of coffee, chocolate, computers, mobile phones, game consoles, cars, etc.

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Unpopular opinion but Americans as a whole need to get used to less of nearly any nonessential good.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

You gotta learn how to present ideas around here:

Make do with less.

"NOOO! FUCK YOU! AND BILLIONAIRES SUCK!"

Stop over consumption to starve the billionaires and save the planet.

"YEAH ALL YOU GREEDY PIGS! STOP!"