this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2024
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[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 8 points 2 months ago (6 children)

I would be more likely to sympathize with JSO if they engaged in direct action against the oil industry instead of the general public. Stopping ambulances and electric cars in traffic does not get the world to abandon oil.

If you're going to commit a criminal offense regardless, at least target something that actively supports or benefits from the oil industry. They could go full Robin Hood, robbing businesses that support the oil industry and anonymously donating the proceeds to environmental causes. They could threaten car dealerships that sell ICE vehicles. While it is certainly illegal to burn down a gas station, at least that would be an attack on the object of their protests rather than the general public.

Nothing wrong with their stated cause, but their actions don't support that cause.

[–] YungOnions@sh.itjust.works 28 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)
[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world -5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)
[–] YungOnions@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Sure, it's not a great look I concur

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/22/just-stop-oil-van-gogh-national-gallery-aileen-getty

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/apr/29/just-stop-oils-protests-funded-by-us-philanthropists

however we're talking about 2% of their overall funding in 2023:

https://time.com/6334072/just-stop-oil-climate-change-activist-group/

I'd argue that money from a climate fund that was cofounded by the daughter of a oil baron (who appears to be something of a environmental activist), whilst not ideal is a fair way removed from the idea that they are funded by the petrol companies as agent provocateurs.

Also, as I linked the evidence suggest they work, so if the likes of Esso are funding them it's not their greatest work. Who knows. I believe they get a bad wrap. If anything I imagine it's more likely the petrol companies are the ones pushing the negative narratives around groups like JSO to try and mute their effectiveness and turn the public against them.

[–] Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The oil companies could fund individual agent provocateurs of JSO directly. Whoever decided to attack the general public is doing big oil a big favor.

[–] YungOnions@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Maybe, maybe not. Without clear evidence it's all supposition. All we know is that, whilst people may not believe it, their actions are effective.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today -2 points 2 months ago

Their actions are effective at getting legislative action against protests and impeding travel. Their effects on stopping oil, however, have been somewhere between "completely ineffective" and "counterproductive".

The reason people have a hard time believing their actions are effective is because their actions are not at all effective.

[–] WanderingVentra@lemm.ee 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I can't imagine their prison sentences if they were actually thieves. Look at what they're getting for doing peaceful protests. People freak out when property is disturbed.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

People freak out when travel is disturbed. They freak out quite a bit less when a big corporation that everyone hates happens to get targeted by environmental activists.

[–] oo1@lemmings.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

. . . that everyone hates so hard they give them loads of money.

I wish they all hated me like that.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 points 2 months ago

I'll DM you my ex wife's info. She can teach you how to accomplish your goal.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

"do something, anything as long as it doesn't affect me"

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

"do something, anything as long as it ~~doesn't affect me~~ actually targets the oil industry.

FTFY.

[–] Deme@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Disruptions cause outrage

Outrage sparks discusson

Discussion leads to political pressure

Political pressure leads to action that targets the oil industry

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

So close, yet so far away...

Political pressure leads to action that targets ~~the oil industry~~ the protesters.

FTFY.

The only thing they have actually achieved is enhanced enforcement and penalties for impeding traffic.

[–] piefedderatedd@piefed.social 1 points 2 months ago

In the Netherlands, since 2023, there have been quite a lot of road blockades by XR (with hundreds to thousands of demonstrators) with no such penalties at all. From what I've read the activists in the UK were (rightfully so) determined to have their say in the court room while the judge sounded like a climate crisis denial person and got impatient. If I were a lawyer I would have made an attempt to get this judge dismissed on the case for not being objective and before they were ready for their verdict.

[–] Deme@sopuli.xyz -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The process I described unfortunately does take longer than the initial lashing outs of the establisment. A couple of "martyrs" may not be the worst thing either.

YungOnions already provided you with some good articles about why and how nonviolent disruption works. I suggest you read them.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

JSO "martyrs" are for the cause of free speech, not against oil. JSO is distracting people from oil. JSO is diverting legislative attention away from oil.

I suggest you stop reading articles, and start looking at reality. The reality is that JSO has demonstrated they are as effective at "disrupting" the oil industry as the Westboro Baptist Church has been at "disrupting" homosexuality: not the fuck at all.

[–] Deme@sopuli.xyz 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not sure how you managed to misunderstand, but by disruptions I was referring to precisely the kind of disruptions of the lives of ordinary people that - and I'm sure we can at least agree on this - they have quite successfully caused.

Our two parallel discussions are about the methods of protesting against the use of fossil fuels. Our discussions here exists because of JSO. It got you thinking about what should be done to get rid of the use of fossil fuels, even if this was just for the purposes of making counterarguments.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 points 2 months ago

I'm not sure how you managed to misunderstand, but by disruptions I was referring to precisely the kind of disruptions of the lives of ordinary people that - and I'm sure we can at least agree on this - they have quite successfully caused.

I agree, they've done a bangup job bringing attention to the ongoing fight against jaywalking.

Against oil, not so much.

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

There have been direct actions recently - they get subjected to media blackout. If you want to shift public sentiment, you need eyeballs - they get eyeballs, and while responses are obviously mixed, they lean positive over time.

[–] sandbox@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Personally, I believe that criticising the efforts of activists with whom you share a cause is one of the lowest things you can do.

If I think there’s a better way, then I go do it, or at the very least I would participate in that group and try to bring them around to my way of thinking.

I definitely would not publicly criticise them because that doesn’t actually help the cause, it just damages it.

But of course, I can’t hold people to the same high expectations I hold of myself.

[–] Adanisi@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They literally DID. The fact you don't know about it shows why they also do their publicity stunts.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today -3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I heard about a car dealership and gas stations being lit on fire by protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin. When did JSO protesters do something similar?

[–] Adanisi@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What part of that is remotely comparable to the car dealership and gas station in Kenosha?

[–] Adanisi@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The part where it's action targeting the oil companies? You know, like you were suggesting they do?

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 0 points 2 months ago

Ah. Thanks for clarifying.

I must confess, I see no noteworthy comparison. I question their commitment and resolve.