this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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Whether or not the statement is recursive, it is a basis. I see no valid reason to define it more rigorously. I identify as a woman, therefore I am. I identify as bisexual, therefore I am. Those are labels for nebulous social constructs, and don't need to be rigorous definitions. Any basis beyond "because I say so" would be inherently exclusionary. The entire debate over what defines a woman or a man is a pointless affair which harms transgender people and gender nonconforming cisgender people alike. I believe we should be abolishing gender, not trying to establish a basis for what makes someone woman or man enough. It's all made up.
My main point being: Gender is a social construct, and doesn't fit the complex reality of lived human experience. Let people define their gender in their own terms, for those that desire a label, and otherwise abolish it.
You've said a lot which I'm already on board with, and mostly besides the point.
People can define their genders however they want, but a person who identifies as a woman without doing anything else to project that identity is virtually nobody's conception of a woman is.
That's not true, what you're advocating for is gender gatekeeping and it's the same forced gender performance Republicans demand or else they'll examine your genitals before you use the bathroom.
At the end of the day, it isn't up to us to define or understand gender for anyone else. It's up to us to know and respect their pronouns. We don't get to define what being a woman is for everyone.
It's like the myth of sisyphus - what we bring to the journey is what defines that journey, and maybe defines us to some extent. Whether that's joy, singing, boredom, anger, all of the above, etc. What we bring to womanhood, whether thats traditional or not, is up to us and how we interpret it.
You're being hyperbolic. I'm not discussing pronouns, and I've stated elsewhere that I have no problems addressing people how they'd like to be.
I'm not being hyperbolic, frankly that's not what hyperbole means. I'm saying that as far as it concerns you, as an individual, how someone else defines woman is largely irrelevant, or whether they define themselves as woman is irrelevant. From an outsider's perspective on another person's gender, the only thing necessary to know is their pronouns.
Maybe it would help to think of gender as a type of artistic expression. Certainly we use fashion and makeup artistically to express gender. And just like we might say "that's not goth," and then end up with pastel goths as a whole vibe, we also get femboy transmen and dyke/butch transwomen and a bunch of other variations that are possible. We can no more define what a woman or gender is to an individual experiencing it, than we can define what is art to someone experiencing it.
I am not advocating for is not part of the same performance of examining peoples genitals. You are just being hyperbolic.
No, I'm not. Saying gender must be perfomed to the traditional binary in order to be recognized as the gender you state is exactly what Republicans are arguing with their genital inspections.
They look at a woman or man and say "that's not woman or man enough!" This thinking is inappropriate and leads to abuse like genital inspections. We are not entitled to placing gender onto someone else. We accept it from the other person as they define it.
Sure, we might project our experience of gender onto someone and assume their gender. But that doesn't mean our projection is the reality of what gender must be for that person.
Okay, so is your argument that the definition SHOULD change so that Republicans cannot inspect genitals?
My argument with you is that women should be defined as anyone who identifies or feels like a woman.
My opinion on gender gatekeeping is that the gender binary is heuristic nonsense and we should do away with it in general. We do not need to act as gender police or support the notion that society should police gender or self expression.
So you are prescribing it.
I don't respect the intention behind trying to force others to use your language. This is a large part of why the conservatives are so angry.
Conservatives are angry because M&Ms have different boots on than they used to, I really don't care, man.
Lol the conservatives are angry because they are entitled dickwads being told no. And if you empathize with that, well... Kinda seems like a veiled threat to me that if I don't cater to your stupid man feelings, you'll put me in my place. Well, I'm a lil too intellectually dangerous for that one and youre a giant coward so whatever. The conservatives are NO where near as angry as the women. There are many simultaneous movements happening including 4B as a reaction to men's abuse towards women. And it's time women started to make men feel our anger. We aren't your mommies. Women are the keeper of cultures. It's time to flex that. Let society bend or break.
And let's point out that you're the one who insists (prescribes) a basis for what a woman is other than this definition. You think society should prescribe and define gender for individuals, not the other way around.
Yeah, I have opinions. My opinion is that the definition for woman should be the above because it is the most inclusive of all types of women. That makes it a good definition because it's accurate.
I didn't threaten you.
You're being hyperbolic.
I think the word you actually want to use is hysterical, not hyperbolic.
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-south-east-north-florida/blog/the-history-of-hysteria-and-how-it-impacts-you
What I think you're doing is exaggerating, synonymous with hyperbole.
What I think you're doing is misogyny and gaslighting.
I think that is more hyperbole.