this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024
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[–] Zozano@lemy.lol 1 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

A woman is someone who identifies as a woman.

This is a recursive statement which gets us nowhere. We need to establish that there is some kind of basis, which is the previous definition.

[–] erin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Whether or not the statement is recursive, it is a basis. I see no valid reason to define it more rigorously. I identify as a woman, therefore I am. I identify as bisexual, therefore I am. Those are labels for nebulous social constructs, and don't need to be rigorous definitions. Any basis beyond "because I say so" would be inherently exclusionary. The entire debate over what defines a woman or a man is a pointless affair which harms transgender people and gender nonconforming cisgender people alike. I believe we should be abolishing gender, not trying to establish a basis for what makes someone woman or man enough. It's all made up.

[–] erin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (16 children)

My main point being: Gender is a social construct, and doesn't fit the complex reality of lived human experience. Let people define their gender in their own terms, for those that desire a label, and otherwise abolish it.

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[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

Why do we need to establish a basis if it's all made up anyway? For what purpose?

[–] Zozano@lemy.lol 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Because we use words to identify things.

[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (15 children)

Okay, so then why do we have a word for woman? What is the intention of that category? Is it really necessary to define anyway? If not, why does it matter what a woman is except its what she calls herself?

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[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

I don't think you mean it's a recursive statement, are you trying to say it's a circular definition? If we instead changed the statement to "A woman is any person who identifies as such," thus only using the word 'woman' once, does this fix your criticism of this definition? Does this mean you no longer need an arbitrary basis to define women?

It's an acceptable definition. A circular definition would be "A woman is a woman." Instead, she's defining a woman as someone who identifies as a woman. That's not circular. You just don't like it for whatever reason (you have yet to define what a woman is yourself despite thinking a different basis can be established).

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[–] petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 weeks ago (41 children)

This isn't a programming class, dude.

I mean, are you worried about definitions that are circular because A depends on B depends on C depends on A? No, you're not. No one has ever complained about this.

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