this post was submitted on 25 May 2024
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[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Wouldn't the better solution be to simply not turn gorillas into a public attraction?

[–] wahming@monyet.cc 1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Generating awareness and sympathy is probably the biggest factor in keeping many endangered species alive

[–] RadicalCandour@startrek.website 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

To add to this, A lot of gorillas that are saved from unsafe/illegal conditions cannot go back into the wild. Places like The Rotterdam zoo provides a lot of enrichment for these animals that you won’t see at say, Joe’s roadside animal park.

[–] rah@feddit.uk 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Why not save animals from unsafe/illegal conditions and provide enrichment, without turning the animals into an attraction?

[–] Liz@midwest.social 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Because the attraction rallies support for preserving and protecting their natural habitat. Zoos act as promotional centers for conservation.

[–] rah@feddit.uk 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Zoos act as promotional centers for conservation.

But they aren't necessary for conservation. Conservation can occur without zoos.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yes, but conservation is not a binary condition. Zoos are responsible for more conservation than we would otherwise have without them.

[–] rah@feddit.uk 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

So you acknowledge that zoos are not necessary for conservation?

[–] Liz@midwest.social 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Not in a binary sense, no. Such thinking isn't useful, however. Zoos are a very strong net good fot animals, with minimal downsides (assuming the zoo keepers aren't calloused assholes).

[–] rah@feddit.uk 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

with minimal downsides

To me your view seems woefully ignorant, possibly even delusional:

https://northeastwildlife.org/why-do-zoo-animals-pace-back-and-forth/

[–] Liz@midwest.social 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yes I'm well aware of the difficulties involved, but they can be mitigated, as your source explains. There's more issues than just keeping them from going stir-crazy, but a proper zoo (the only kind I advocate for) will do their best to address all of them.

[–] rah@feddit.uk 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

they can be mitigated

But not eliminated.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 1 points 7 months ago

You and I have different moral systems and you think that hammering a deal-breaker for you will cause me to change my mind, when I'm perfectly okay with causing a small harm in order to secure a much much greater good.

[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 1 points 7 months ago

I love when people like you suddenly come up with a hot take that absolutely no one has ever thought through ever in the past hundreds of years.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 7 months ago

i too can come up with technically true statements that are completely useless

[–] wahming@monyet.cc 1 points 7 months ago

Because people wouldn't support spending their taxes on it without making them aware of the value. Which is done by educating them.

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Another lie of capitalism. Species don't have inherent value, individuals of a species do. Which is why bad treatment of those individuals can't be justified by appealing to the species' survival. It's about money, like everywhere else.

[–] wahming@monyet.cc 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

... What. I don't even know where to start with that. Ecological conservation is about money?

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)
[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Well how else would you suggest people come in contact with the wildlife of this world? Which is obviously critical in making people care about protecting it.

Crappy "documentaries" ain't it by the way. Not to mention that zoos also serve a secondary function in providing for rescue animals, and animals otherwise unable to live in the wild. Zoos are not perfect, but are very clearly the best compromise for fostering interest in our wonderful nature in future generations, who probably won't even encounter a horse or cow in real life otherwise.

[–] rah@feddit.uk 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well how else would you suggest people come in contact with the wildlife of this world?

By going to their habitats?

obviously critical in making people care about protecting it

No. Zoos are not critical in making people care about protecting wildlife.

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 months ago

Taking tourists into natural habitats is way more destructive than having a few specimens on display in artificial habitats.

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well how else would you suggest people come in contact with the wildlife of this world?

They shouldn't.

Which is obviously critical in making people care about protecting it.

Where is the evidence for that?

Not to mention that zoos also serve a secondary function in providing for rescue animals, and animals otherwise unable to live in the wild.

This doesn't require the animals to be put on display.

Zoos are not perfect, but are very clearly the best compromise for fostering interest in our wonderful nature in future generations, who probably won't even encounter a horse or cow in real life otherwise.

Or we could stop destroying the natural habitats of those animals instead of making a profit with the remaining individuals.

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Do you need evidence that most people have a hard time being invested in something entirely abstract which they will never interact with for their whole life? Something they only ever saw in school books? Which is what animals would be for a massive part of the population.

Kids nowadays at best interact with pets, they know the horses are what people rode in those old western movies and cows are what makes the milk in the carton from the grocery store. Chicken grows in nugget form.

And these are all domesticated animals, not at all exotic in most places around the world. How would they ever come into contact with all the other fascinating creatures we share our planet with? Develop a passion for their protection?

[–] wahming@monyet.cc 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Zoos are about money, yes. That's not the point under discussion. I'm taking issue with the line 'species don't have inherent value'. You're basically saying it's ok to drive species extinct as long as its done humanely.

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

ou're basically saying it's ok to drive species extinct

You should read my comment again. This is not what I am saying.

[–] wahming@monyet.cc 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's certainly how it comes across when you claim species don't have inherent value. Why would we bother to preserve and protect something that's valueless? You may have meant something else, but judging by the downvotes nobody else is getting your intended meaning either.

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 0 points 7 months ago

I can't control what people want to interpret into what I write 🤷