this post was submitted on 16 Mar 2024
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[–] CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Stopping the rise of the far right is trivially easy, and government holds the levers. Just do two things:

  1. reduce immigration
  2. tax the wealthy

Seems they would rather lose to nazis than do those two things.

Edit: seems more than a few of you are rushing to lose to Nazis too

[–] Belastend@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Taxing the rich is what the current government wants. The right wing does not want that.

[–] UpperBroccoli@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

The FDP very definitely does not want this, and one would be justified in doubting if the top brass of the SPD wants it. Personally, I am inclined to believe they only suggest plans like this knowing full well nothing will come of them in this government constellation.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Do liberals have a theory for why fascism is sprouting up around the world?
Because Marxists are like seen-this-one https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Fascism

[–] hannes3120@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago

Climate changes makes change necessary.

It's also telling people that they didn't do enough in the last decades to prevent the worst from happening

Populists are telling their voters that they don't have to change because only group x, y, z is responsible

The combination of the realistic and science based side telling people that it's wrong to eat meat every day and fly to vacations every year and the other side telling them to not do that is driving people away from a science based discourse which opens the door for even more extreme parties to enter.

tldr; I believe Conservatives letting their voters believe that nothing has to change and don't believe scientists is the root for this as not believing in science makes discussions Impossible and gives feelings more value than facts

[–] nekandro@lemmy.ml 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Today, German lawmakers are rewriting bylaws and pushing for constitutional amendments to ensure courts and state parliaments can provide checks against a future, more powerful AfD. Some have even launched a campaign to ban the AfD altogether.

You see, democracy is when...

[–] Downcount@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I'll help you with this sentence:

... it defends itself against an undemocratic power.

[–] ogmios@sh.itjust.works 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yes. Democracy is when you refuse to allow the people to have a say in their systems of governance.

[–] Downcount@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yes. Democracy is when you refuse to allow ~~the people~~ a party that wants to dismantle the democratic state and bringing in nothing than hate to have a say in their systems of governance.

[–] ogmios@sh.itjust.works 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Maybe if you want to prevent such a hypothetical future the democratic solution is to offer something better for people to vote for, instead of using threats of violence by employing the law to enforce your systems.

[–] Downcount@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

There is and never will be a perfect system of whatsoever. I'd rather watch them nazi party get forbidden than waiting for a solution that will come in place when it is already too late.

And unless you aren't a nazi, putin follower or trumpist, I don't know why I even have to explain why a German future with a nazi party at its front will be no good for nobody.

[–] ogmios@sh.itjust.works 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The solution being proposed here to prevent authoritarian systems is... other authoritarian systems. Can you understand why people see this as a problem brewing?

[–] snooggums@midwest.social 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Retaining democracy is not authoritarian.

[–] ogmios@sh.itjust.works 0 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Removing people's ability to choose the government they desire is not democracy.

[–] Downcount@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Unless they want to remove the ability to chose a government ever again.

What you are saying: It is okay to let facists and dictators take over the world.

What I am saying: It's not.

Simple as that.

Feel free to answer this post, I'm out.

[–] ogmios@sh.itjust.works 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Simple as that.

The situation is nowhere near that simple. You just want to pretend it is so you don't have to ask difficult questions that challenge your perspective, like why the current government is wildly unpopular.

[–] Killing_Spark@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Let me jump in here then.

Those two questions are only somewhat related. The question "should we ban an undemocratic party that wants to work against core values of our constitution" has only become really pressing because the current government is so unpopular. The actual reasoning for or against the ban do not relate to the popularity of the government.

Taking the current state of affairs and concluding that voting enemies of the constitution into the government would be the solution is not something the majority has to accept as a valid political point of view.

You may call that antidemocratic but there are good reasons we have these non-negotiable core values in our constitution.

If you want to protest against the current government go ahead and I'll probably support you, there are many good reasons to do that. As long as you are not supporting the movement against our country itself.

[–] agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 0 points 6 months ago

You see, we call it Wehrhafte Demokratie. According to Wikipedia this can be translated as battlesome democracy, though I find that clunky.

The entire idea of our constitution is to keep a democracy, we even have a constitutional right to disobedience, if democracy is threatened.

The constitution is deliberately very open, but there's one thing that's non-negotiable: FDGO, liberal-democratic basic order. If you're operating outside of that, you're not supposed to be part of the political landscape.

[–] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml -1 points 6 months ago (4 children)

In reality, far from stopping the far right, Germany is implementing a far right agenda. Increase police authority? Check. Scapegoat immigrants and other marginalized groups? Check. Build up the military? Check. Suppress protests and dissenters? Check. Impose austerity, providing the fertile ground for fascists? Check.

By the time the AfD comes to power, they won't have to do anything. The liberals (including socdems and greens) will already have created a fascist society.

[–] EtzBetz@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Are you living in a different Germany than me? There are sadly things going on to make immigration harder. But other than that, things are okay.

[–] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml -1 points 5 months ago

Make immigration harder??? Nice euphemism for this fascist shit. They're throwing human rights out of the window. They're literally putting migrants into concentration camps, if they're don't drown first thanks to Frontex pushbacks. Greens defended this so-called compromise to their base while fascist Meloni was giving victory speeches.

"Endlich im großen Stil abschieben" (Scholz). I can't tell the difference an NPD slogan and the SPD chancellor.

And for the other shit, there's some extra police authority or surveillance law proposed every other month or so. Pro-palestine protests are criminalized and they're threatening Muslims with deportation for not being loyal enough to Israel. All the parties are discussing what sort of services they can cut so they have more money for the military. Real wages are shrinking. You can't open a newspaper without reading about how Germany needs to prepare for war. Things are not okay.

[–] BestBouclettes@jlai.lu 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The same is happening to France. As you said, they'll have a field day when (at this point it's not if, it's when) they get to power.
Gotta love neoliberalism...

[–] Gloomy@mander.xyz 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

The Netherlands will very likely have a right wing government and will be heading down the same path. Same with Italy, Sweden, Denmark.

With the next European election this year the right wing parties in the European Parliament will gain a lot of traction.

We could be heading down the American path and lose a lot or the progress we made over the last 2 decades.

I will be a father in a couple or hours. Between the right taking to power and accelerating climate change i am just so fucking worried in what kind of world my kids will grow up.

[–] Crampon@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The rise of right wing parties might be a consequence of the left wings failure to govern.

In Norway the Labour Party was the biggest party for decades. Now the party is infested with politicians using it for career paths to NGO's or international organisations like UN and EU. The same party made for the labourers implements tax policies making it really hard to start industries.

Money are being spent on the most incredible projects bearing no fruit for future generations.

At a point people get fed up, and in desperation they have to vote further to the right. If you want less government spending on stupid projects you also have to get some fascism.

The problem is not the right wing parties or stupid people. The problem is worthless left wing politicians not contributing positive to the nation.

It saddens me.

[–] Gloomy@mander.xyz 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I don't know about other nations. In Germany we have had the Conservative Party ruling for 16 years as a right leaning Party, 4 years of a left party that implemented right wing neo fashist ideas, followed by another 16 years of conservative rule with more centeristic than right wing rule (the political void in the right was filled by the AFD, which has become a true fashist party in the last 10 years). The only "left" government we ever had in the last 36 years has been in the last 2, and they are heavily restricted by beeing in a coalition with a neo liberal right wing party.

So, at least for Germany, this just doesn't hold true.

[–] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml -1 points 5 months ago

The only “left” government we ever had in the last 36 years has been in the last 2, and they are heavily restricted by beeing in a coalition with a neo liberal right wing party.

They're all neoliberals. They wouldn't be doing anything substantially different if the FDP didn't exist.

[–] _Cid_@lemmy.world 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

These are a lot of statements without sources. Also most people would disagree with the statement that a government that includes social democrats and greens is implementing a "far right agenda".

[–] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Fucking Scholz said he wanted to "finally deport in a big way" ("endlich im großen Stil abschieben"). This is (well used to be) a far right agenda. They're sending weapons to Israeli fascists while they commit genocide, and defend them at every opportunity. These people support fascists and fascist policies.

What exactly do you even dispute is untrue about what I said?

[–] theonyltruemupf@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Scholz was talking about around 50000 people who came seeking asylum but we're found to have no right to asylum. It's not very humane but it's the current law. The actual fascists of the far right are talking millions.

SPD is a relatively conservative party but it's absolutely insane to call them fascists.

[–] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml -1 points 5 months ago

It’s not very humane but it’s the current law

They changed the law so they can deport more people!

They are absolutely going far right with this one especially and their rhetoric around it. These used to be totally unacceptable far right slogans and policies, but here we are. Basic human rights suspended. Just because the AfD is worse does not mean the SPD has not shifted into what not long ago was far right territory. But oh no, calling out racism and how the SPD is effectively enabling a shift towards fascism is too far for you! That's exactly how this rightward shift can happen, because people like you are making excuses for this shit.

[–] rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Build up the military?

Any source on that? We do not have a military right now. Wouldn't be bad if we wanted to defend ourselves against Putin.

[–] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yeah yeah, I remember all that shit from back in the day. Die Russen kommen! Die Russen kommen! Oldest trick in the book.

Natürlich, das einfache Volk will keinen Krieg […] Aber schließlich sind es die Führer eines Landes, die die Politik bestimmen, und es ist immer leicht, das Volk zum Mitmachen zu bringen, ob es sich nun um eine Demokratie, eine faschistische Diktatur, um ein Parlament oder eine kommunistische Diktatur handelt. […] Das ist ganz einfach. Man braucht nichts zu tun, als dem Volk zu sagen, es würde angegriffen, und den Pazifisten ihren Mangel an Patriotismus vorzuwerfen und zu behaupten, sie brächten das Land in Gefahr. Diese Methode funktioniert in jedem Land. -- Hermann Göring

Also, I love that you want a source for something that was a top news story for months. You somehow heard, dass die Russen kommen!!! but not the Sondervermögen? You're just fucking with me, aren't you?

[–] idiomaddict@feddit.de 0 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

If it helps, I’m a (terrified) immigrant in Germany and it’s really confusing. I don’t know why there’s so much certainty in media reports about things that aren’t certain. It could be a language barrier, but I assume mild shade whenever Konjunktiv I comes up, so I’m probably interpreting that as unfairly noncommittal.

Examples: Scholz wanted to disallow immigrants from working, then make them work to be eligible for citizenship, whatever is happening with marijuana, I read about Wagenknechts new party more than a year before she actually formed it.