I don't understand how hydrogen didn't win the race. Transports and explodes just like gasoline. Make car go fast. Doesn't degrade like lithium. Can be "mined" by throwing electricity at water during times of excess generation by renewables. When you burn it, it turns into water. Has none of the national security concerns of distribution of lithium mining and production in other countries.
Because right now we don't have that much excess energy... Therefore it's just a waste of energy to use it, because it is way less efficient. AND on top of it an hydrogen car also needs a battery just a smaller one. So it has all the downsides without any upsides. The only upside is that you can recharge your car faster and it has some more range. But both those things don't matter for the average consumer
Hydrogen for cars is a nonsense. It is so inefficient. Unless you are making it from oil, which why the oil companies are pushing it, you lose loads of energy making it. Then it has to storages and transported, which is hard. Then the car use of it is inefficient too.
So ignoring the oil industries' "blue hydrogen", and looking only at "green hydrogen", you are looking at about 22% of the energy generated ending up pushing the car forward! With an EV it is about 73%. So hydrogen car are over 3 times more expensive to run.
Plus you can just plug in an EV anywhere. With an EV, if need be, you can charge, slowly, off a normal home socket. Of course, normally, you fit faster charging at home.
Hydrogen cars is lie pushed by big oil.
What about hydrogen fuel cells? They got 79% efficiency and can replace batteries of EVs right?
Yes, but turning electricity into hydrogen doesn't have 100% efficiency, during transport, storage and filling the car with hydrogen you lose some of it and only then you get to the fuel cell, which isn't very efficient in itself. And then you lose a bit more (although very little) in the electric motor. All this amounts to the 22% of the guy above (didn't check the number btw, but it sounds plausible)
You need green energy to produce climate friendly hydrogen. This is a LOT more inefficient than to just use that green energy directly in EVs. Thus green hydrogen is also expensive and most importantly it is needed in the industry. It's the same with e-fuels.
Public transport is awesome..
It just doesnt always go where everyone needs to go
Bikes are great right until you have to do large grocery shopping or get to a place far away.
I cant do without a car where i live.
Bikes also aren't great for snow, heavy rain, or extreme temperatures.
There's no bad weather, only bad clothing
I'm entertained by the fact that everyone gets hung up on how EVs are still not totally green because the electricity comes from coal fired plants or that there's still manufacturing emissions and stuff....
It's like, yeah, but compared to an ICE car, which has all the same problems (environmental cost of manufacturing the vehicle, mining and refining the fuel, transporting it, etc) but EVs don't actively pollute nearly as much during use, and they speak as if these are of equal environmental cost, and they're not. Additionally, ICE vehicles need a lot more oil to operate that needs to be changed and disposed of every few thousand miles.
It's like doing less harm isn't valuable to the people arguing against it, but then again, those are probably the same people who drive their V8 truck to get groceries.
Plus there are plenty of people, like myself, who live in areas where the electricity comes from mostly renewable sources.
Me too. I'm pretty well surrounded by nuclear and hydro-electric here in southern Ontario.
A yes, renewable nuclear energy.
Not possible where I live, not enough public transport, not enough bike lanes and too far to travel Daily
That's what they all say. I usually assume people are just to lazy to ride their bike or feel like public transport is too much of an inconvenience. Nobody ever wants to "downgrade" and thus this planet is utterly fucked.
This reminds me, I need to work on getting a bike.
If you use it every day and can afford it, maybe look at brand electric bikes! They're a bit like bikes, but sturdier and on bad/rainy days and whatnot it really motivates to have the motors help. They're almost like motor scooters, if you ever had one.
Is ebike theft an issue? I'm paranoid about my push bike that I have no idea how I'd leave an ebike out.
Yes it is but you can get cheap insurance, just like you would get for a motor scooter or a car.
...public transport isn't that green either...
How so?
Are you really a peach?
of course! A hot one at that ;)
Oh so you must be a very ripe peach!
But if you're a peach how are you communicating? Are you still attached to your tree? Are there other sentient peaches?
I am still attached to a tree luckily. Unfortunately I am the only sentient peach, but I have a computer so I can use lemmy :3
How bout electric bikes? 😊
They're the best!
Why aren't EVs that green?
They're pretty green if they're not huge SUVs
If I could hop on a train from the country side or ride my bike 20m on a dirt road or ice and winter to get to a store I’d be happy but that’s not happening
Could happen soon, has happened before in most places.
Bikes sound like a great idea until you decide to live in the hills/mountains, or a place where it rains/snows often, or you need to buy more than 4 bags of groceries, or you live in a desert, or you are moving furniture.
How many people live in a desert? How many people live in the hills/mountains? Most people don't.
"Most people", where? Because most people in, let's say, Norway, live in areas with hills and mountains. The US isn't the whole world you know.
You have no idea how people in Europe live. I live in Germany. Norway has 5 urban people for every rural living person: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/NOR/norway/urban-population
eBikes really take the sting out of hills.
I live where it snows a lot, winter tires are a must, but so long as bike lanes are properly cleared it's not really a problem (big IF I know), until it gets to -25C or colder the cold isn't really a problem (you warm up fast peddling, I normally find myself unzipping my jacket).
My cargo bike is enough for me to take 2 weeks of groceries for 4 people. The largest thing I have transported has been a fridge (which funnily enough couldn't fit in my EV). the bike is rated for 200Kg, but I would bet it can take more if you don't mind going a little slower. I have also transported lawn mowers, bar stools and a rocking chair. For anything bigger than that 30bucks on a uhaul is more than worthwhile, although I look forward to electric uhauls.
E-bikes still have a massive carbon footprint compared to regular bicycles, and the battery efficiency is very adversely effected by high heat (deserts) and low heat (snow) .
Either way, a car, even if its an EV, will be the better pick for every situation I stated above.
Ebikes actually have a lower carbon footprint compared to regular bikes, because they go more kilometers in their lifespan.
How often are you going to move furniture?
I tell people yes do get an EV for your next car. But also use this chance to really think about if you need the car at all. Or does every adult in the household need a car each. Our city is trash for everyone having to own a car.
Best is to run your car to the ground. Then get an EV if you must own a car.
Best is to run your car to the ground.
Absolutely not if you have an older ICE car with bad gas mileage and/or a diesel. Even getting a NEW EV would be better for global warming and the health of your fellow humans than continuing THAT shit show.
Of course, as per the OP, bicycle and mass transit is still much better than any EV, but the really bad emissions cars should NOT stay on the road until their "natural" death unless absolutely necessary.
I don't understand. I thought there's more emissions being made from the creation of the EV and its lithium battery than using the remaining life of a gas beater.
That's a commonly believed myth. In reality that's only true for the most efficient ICEs, not the ones I mentioned.
Source?
i'd rather live. no thanks. german bike lanes are the worst. also i'm not riding my bike 20km every day, not happening. i'm depressed enough.
Understandable. I ride 26 km a day to work and bike lanes in my city suck. You either ride on the most left part of it and risk getting hit by a driving car or you ride on right and risk getting doored. And if you don't keep a meter distance to parked cars it's already part your fault.
Also had my first crash after a few weeks because a motorist didn't see me. And I never had a crash in my almost 10 years and ~175000km of driving cars.
Most of the criticisms that come from the right are solvable problems, such as lack of chargers, electricity coming from dirty sources, or lithium mining. We pretty much know how to solve all those at this point. Just a matter of doing it.
Criticisms that come from the left tend to be more fundamental. Things like car-based cities being too spread out, infrastructure costs spiraling out of control, or having the average person operate a 2 ton vehicle at speeds over 60mph and expecting this to be safe. None of those are specific to EVs, and are only solvable by looking at different transportation options.
How is lithium mining a solvable problem? Genuinely asking
Oceanic sources. The projects getting underway are focusing on brine pools like California's Salton Sea, but sea water sources of lithium in general are basically indefinite, and can work anywhere with a coastline. Other harvested salts may also produce useful byproducts, and you may even be able to run it as part of a general desalination plant for freshwater.
Not to mention there are advances with lithium recycling, both in facilities and new processes to make it more efficient.