this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
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About the us election (lemmy.zip)
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by Blisterexe@lemmy.zip to c/curatedtumblr@sh.itjust.works
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[Transcription]

tinymoves

to be honest it would make me a lot more comfortable if you guys would show a little concern about trump running for president again. Do not inbox me and say you don’t like joe biden omg i already know. but can we show a little concern. about donald trump. being the republican candidate for president. for the third election in a row.

parentheticalaside

Also maybe you can focus a little more on how Trump won't stop fucking running and a little less on the incumbent president running for reelection once, which is the natural path that is not at all weird. Like, the fact that it's these same two guys again is Trump's fault, not Biden's. What Biden

is doing is normal. What Trump is doing is very much not.

theroguefeminist

Going to come out here and say this: if you do not vote for Biden, you are voting for Trump. | literally do not care what horde of leftists with the memory span of a goldfish come for me for saying this. A third party vote is no vote. No vote is a vote for Trump. If you care at all about saving democracy in this country long enough to elect someone better than Biden, vote for Biden. Not voting for Biden is a vote for a dictator and a vote for the end of democracy. As bad as things are, we saw they can get so much worse. And | do not want to hear the same people saying not to vote for Biden crying when shit hits the fan if Trump wins.

If you care about trans people's rights. If you care about abortion rights. If you care about immigrants’ rights. If you care about global warming. Literally any issue under the sun, will be made worse by Trump in every conceivable way imaginable.

| have a hard time fathoming how people are

still saying Trump and Biden are the same after everything that has happened. A quick Google

on Biden's policies on every progressive issue vs Trump will tell you the opposite. Yeah, Biden is a shitty moderate liberal who supports Israel. So

is literally every single other US president that has ever fucking existed. Voting for a third party candidate will not help Palestine. It will literally only escalate things and make them even worse if Trump wins. In every conceivable way imaginable.

If you aren't going to vote, then at least have the decency to stop pretending like what you are doing has any remotely positive impact. It does not. There is nothing virtuous or admirable about abstaining (and a third party vote is abstaining). We went through this in 2016. | thought people would have learned by now. But here we are again in 2024. If Trump wins, blood is on your hands and you didn't do even the one easiest thing you could do to stop it from happening.

synnefa-kyria

The DNC was never going to nominate another primary candidate over the incumbent, the sitting president, who is in charge of the entire Democratic party.

| don't think the sun shines out of Biden's ass, guys, but please look at the bigger picture here.

Our presidential election is not ranked choice and is not won by a majority of over 50%. It is a two party system that is won by plurality; whoever gets the biggest slice of votes, even if it's under 50%, is the winner and they take all. First the district, then the state, then the Electoral College. This is why third parties have little influence. This is why voting for them or not at all benefits the opposition. This is why Trump won in 2016.

A 2024 Trump victory is an not something we as a nation can bear - it's bad for us, and it is unseeakabl bad for Palestine because Trump's a far-right lunatic lacking morals and human compassion.

Not voting for Biden, third party or abstaining, will split the vote and cause a spoiler in favor

of Trump. See the 2000 Georee W Bush vs Al Gore election for reference. Take a long look at those razor thin mareins. Al Gore lost Florida

by 0.009%. Hell, walk down memory lane to the 2016 election. States where Trump won by a margin of 3% or less - Colorado, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin - would have won Hillary the Electoral College, 316 to 224,

We cannot fore et Russia's war on Ukraine either. Do you honestly think Trump will want to continue US aid to Ukraine? Really? The

guy who's all buddy-buddy with Putin and has Russia-supporting followers? He's been vocal about his lack of enthusiasm for supporting Ukraine, and has threatened to hamstring NATO - Ukraine's principal ally - should the situation escalate further.

Russia is angling towards a return of the Soviet Union's former territory - look at Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Georgia (the country). Appeasement is not an option - that's a proven failure. A possible return to the Cold War status quo is horrifying, and there's every reason to believe they won't stop there, setting off a multitude of geopolitical tinder boxes. God above forbid any one of the parties involved sets off a nuclear bomb, tactical or ICBM.

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[–] Firefly7@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I don’t understand this political strategy in the long-run. If the left always unflinchingly votes for the leftmost candidate then the optimal strategy for the DNC is always to choose someone just 1% to the left of whoever the Republicans are running.

The trumpers aren’t strong because they always vote. They’re strong because everyone knows that, if Trump isn’t on the ballot, they won’t turn out to vote nearly as strongly.

Combine this with the fact that basically every business interest wants right-wing politics and you get the perpetual rightwards slide of the Democratic Party.

[–] awesome_lowlander@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don’t understand this political strategy

Because way too many voters have no concept of game theory

[–] pachrist@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I've had some luck explaining it by asking folks why multiple gas stations are at the same intersection, or asking why Lowes and Home Depot are always right next to each other.

[–] awesome_lowlander@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I'm afraid you've lost me

[–] pachrist@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

It's traditionally explained with two lemonade stands on a long beach. If their product is generally indistinguishable and both want to maximize their number of customers, they will eventually settle on halfway mark of the beach. One gets all the foot traffic from the left, the other from the right, splitting it 50/50.

The same applies to businesses on a map, not just a one dimensional beach. Most consumers don't really care if it's a Home Depot or Lowes, or a BP or Exxon. If one of them discovers a gap in the market and places something there, someone else can come along and grab half the market. It's something Walmart has done in a lot of small towns. They'll come in and split market 50/50 with a small, local shop knowing that there's not enough money to turn a profit with splitting the market in half. But they know they the can run a loss for a year or two, the competition will close, and then they'll have 100% of the market.

It's a really topical thing in politics. There are more centrist voters than at either extreme end, so politicians tend to fall more in the middle. Politicians like Trump change the landscape though. While an extreme candidate, the Republican party had already been shifting more right for a while, so he only marginally pulled the voter base right, but pulled most Republican politicians right, or pushed them out. Democrats moved to match. It essentially means that far right Republicans have a short stroll to the nearest lemonade stand, but far left Democrats have to trudge a couple miles in the hot summer sun, and they're deciding it's not worth it.

[–] BaldManGoomba@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

The thing that is annoying is there is NO nuance to this. First primary isn't over. So I can vote something to pull Biden more left. Second I live in a state with no chance of Biden losing. Remember this isn't a one person one vote thing this is who wins the popular vote in each state for president gets all that states votes unless you are in Nebraska or Maine. So if I live in Delaware then voting 3rd party won't hurt Biden he will win but maybe a movement will realize he doesn't have as much support so maybe he will court progressive independents versus Republicans.

It won't hurt. That being said do vote blue down ballot and primary all the people who are fake Democrats or shitty ones. Maybe if you find a hole and find you have massive support get a green party in but you would know if that race is close if you are local.

These posts are annoying to tell people to fall in line and I agree the other posts of I hate Biden is trying to divide the line in closer races.

[–] pyre@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

yeah i hear you and all, but i still don't like that Biden isn't leftist so I'm willing to give straight up fascism another go

[–] index@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Watch out for the propaganda. The red and blue party will always try to stay in power and push the narrative that not voting for them is a wasted vote. If you actually want anything to change at all stop supporting them.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev -1 points 2 months ago

Watch out for the propaganda

Found some

[–] LordGimp@lemm.ee 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I like it better when they tell me their politics with their chests. Chests that happen to have big sloppy wobbling milkers. One of my favorite ig follows is a woman with absolutely enormous honkers who talks about the right to contraception and I have decided this is how I prefer my politics

[–] gabereal@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

'Enormous honkers', you say? What is this person's IG name?

...if my wife is reading, I want her IG name to make sure I don't accidentally view the account, of course.

[–] LordGimp@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago

It definitely wouldn't be thejuliettemichele.

You have absolutely no business whatsoever looking for this person.

[–] Jordan117@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Climate change is the single overriding issue for me. We are beyond out of time to avert damaging levels of warming, and even Biden's climate policies -- by far the most sweeping in the history of the country -- are barely adequate to begin steering us away from the absolute worst. If Trump gets in, and eviscerates federal climate policy, and stacks the EPA with oil lobbyists (again), and fills federal courts with science-denying assholes, and sabotages state and local efforts to decarbonize, and destroys all chance of global cooperation on this issue, and (most importantly) dismantles democracy so that it is effectively impossible to vote for a progressive ever again absent a second civil war, then we will be consigning the entire planet to "nightmare hellscape" levels of climate change with no viable pathway out. A second Trump term would add four billion tons of carbon emissions over the next six years. It would "negate – twice over – all of the savings from deploying wind, solar and other clean technologies around the world over the past five years". And that analysis doesn't account for increased emissions from Trump policies, just a reversal of what Biden has accomplished. Allowing Trump to win again would not just be national, but global suicide.

[–] match@pawb.social 1 points 2 months ago

dismantles democracy so that it is effectively impossible to vote for a progressive ever again absent a second civil war, then we will be consigning the entire planet to "nightmare hellscape" levels of climate change with no viable pathway out.

Silly friend, you just mentioned the viable pathway out.

(I agree with everything you said.)

[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Third party voting is as valid as any other vote.

There's also tons of people constantly complaining quite loudly about Trump.

And I'll be voting for Biden because he's done a good job as president and I want to see expanded domestic policies like I've seen this term.

These screenshots make a lot of bad, innacurate and overtly divisive points without introducing any relevant or substantial ideas.

[–] CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The real path forward to fixing voting in the US is going to be a long one. People need to find or form grassroots organizations to replace as many local and state positions as possible with actual candidates. Essentially a takeover of the Democrats starting at the lowest levels and moving up from there.

Some might be demoralized by how long this will take. Others realize that this actually isn't that hard with teams of motivated people.

On the Republican side: look at Brandon Herrera and his battle with Tony Gonzales. A youtuber nearly beat the incumbent (lost by 407 votes). The man tapped into people's anger and very nearly got it.

Where are lefties on this? Nothing out of the unions? People want change, help them get it.

[–] federalreverse@feddit.de 0 points 2 months ago

The real path is fixing American democracy. There's a lot to learn from the Democratic systems that came later: Remove the electoral college, remove FPTP, add more transparency into the political system, disable PACs, disable filibusters, replace the voter registration system...

[–] bloodfart@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 months ago

Wind dat same shit I always post in these threads back selecta!

If you’re reading this and you don’t want to vote for biden or trump, consider party for socialism and liberation. They’re running Claudia de la Cruz for president this year on a platform of Palestinian statehood and ending arms shipments to Israel.

It’s okay to not want to vote for Biden or trump.

[–] PolydoreSmith@lemmy.world -1 points 2 months ago

Wow this screenshot of four people with the same opinion talking to each other in an echo chamber has really changed my mind. Thanks, internet!

When I was a teen protesting the Iraq war (which Biden supported, btw) we couldn’t imagine anyone worse than Dubya. Now we have Trump. Still probably not responsible for as many dead as Bush, but one could argue he’s worse on the domestic front. Now Bush hangs out with Ellen and we all laugh at his paintings like he’s a harmless old man.

So, join me in a thought experiment. Ten years from now someone comes along who’s worse than Trump. Are you going to be telling me I have to vote for Trump because this other person is so much worse? Democrats scream about how great the economy is, but for whom? Not for me or anyone I know. Biden enacts these limp-dick half-measures that satisfy neither the right nor the left. He’s a bad politician. Period. His one job is to convince constituents to re-elect him. He can’t even accomplish that. But since his opponent is awful I have to vote for him. Fuck that.

Who was president when abortion was stripped of federal protection. Who was president when we started funding not one but two proxy wars overseas? Inflation. Shrinkflation. Student loans. You can bandy about all the google searches you want, the proof is in Americans’ day-to-day lives. Page one of the Dems playbook is to say, “Oh dear we wish we could help, but those pesky Republicans…!” And yet when they had control of the Exec and the Legislative branches in Obama’s first term, what leftist utopia did they create?

Read the transcript of Biden’s most recent Time interview. The whole thing. The man doesn’t complete a single thought. And we on the left love to shit on Trump (rightfully so) for talking like an incoherent hospice patient.

Palestine is merely the latest in a long long litany of disappointments, blunders, and outright betrayals (see the railworkers union-busting). If Biden was my employee I’d fire him. If he was my boss I’d quit. But he’s just my president so I’m not voting for him.

[–] fsxylo@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 months ago

The argument won't convince them, because their moral stance is simply a justification for laziness. They have no morals, they just don't want to do shit.