Ask Lemmy

one way fascism thrives is by co-opting the aesthetics of religion to further itself, and it does not limit itself to only one religion. other commenters have noted correctly that the dichotomy you perceive isn’t real; what you identify as the “fervent” are actually just “the most loud and outspoken.”

this is not to “no true scottsman” my way out of the situation. republican christians are christians, it’s just that they are also complicit in using their religion as leverage to gain power as white nationalists.

In my experience lefties in America only claim to be about helping the most vulnerable. When it actually comes down to it, the lefties are perfectly willing to screw over a vulnerable person so long as they are of a certain race or political affiliation.

At its core religion is based on fearing people who are different, and modern right wing politics is based on fearing people who are different.

There's a real cognitive dissonance there. Their version of Christianity takes a back seat to politics because they've been told all these visions of grandeur about how "Jesus is coming back" and how they are the "sheep" and all those godless liberals are the "goats. They've been trained to look for reasons to feel persecuted even if they don't come directly out and say it, even if they don't realize it themselves. There's a real "us vs. them" mentality in a lot of those types of churches and they'll gladly go rub one out to stuff like where Jesus said to his disciples in one of the gospels that if people aren't for him then they're against him. Nevermind that one of the other gospels says the opposite. A lot of Christians I've come across just have this persecution fetish where any slight inconvenience or call for accountability from pretty much anyone (because their church won't take them to task over things) turns into a 'righteous' cry to their lord about how the godless Philistines around them are normalizing oppression and sodomy and trans rights or whatever and these holy little Christian's are the only beacon of hope in society even though they insist on treating anyone who isn't like them like absolute garbage. I'm not a social scientist or anything like that, hopefully people smarter than me chime in. But conservatives treat equity in a community like a zero sum game, you know? If poor people are given a hand up by the government then it's interpreted by these (at best) middle class Christians as an affront to their hard earned money. They worked for their income but "these filthy poors just get handouts at MY expense?" You can tell by their actions that they have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus regardless of how they try to present themselves. They're full of crap and they deserve to be treated as such.

Source: Grew up in a very conservative farming community, did all the church stuff, then moved away and found myself.

Also, I know I abused quotation marks but my bad on any grammar or spelling errors or general incoherence. I treated myself to vodka for dinner.

The gambit of American Christianity is just the wildest snarled mess of hair splitting bullshit one can hope to theologically take seriously (there are actual church splits over folding chairs vs pews).

"BROADLY" you can understand American Christianity as being one of two flavors, what you're observing is Evangelical Christianity, which emphasizes a "born again" experience and a "personal relationship with God", basically they all but come right out and say that they believe what's convenient to their already existing worldviews because these are the Christians that derive from trying to preach a religion that holds the story of Exodus as a core myth to slave oligarchs and also to their slaves.

The other flavor of American Christianity is "Mainline Christianity", this is not to mean mainstream, Mainline refers to how these are the denominations that found the most traction along rail towns. This is the group of denominations closest to what you consider to be what Christianity is meant to be, and they're currently having severe retention issues because the evangelicals are making the mainliners' younger members disgusted with Christianity altogether.

I am Caucasian

Are you actually from the Caucasus, like Georgia, Armenia, etc, or do you use the word to mean "European or descendent of Europeans"? Because the USA likes to use the word to mean European-like, which is incorrect, as the caucasus is a very specific region in the border of Europe and Asia.

Christianity sounds to me a lot more like socialist utopia.

A lot of atheists end up with that impression, maybe from unfamiliarity. That Jesus was just a dope socialist who loved everyone.

But the religion has been absolutely shitty for pretty much as soon as he was dead (at least).

For example, the other day I saw someone cite Acts 4 as an example of how Christianity was a commune, where people pooled their assets.

It conveniently left out the part where Peter had an older couple who didn't pay him everything they owned who were both struck dead after meeting privately and being confronted (allegedly killed by God). Which was a reference back to the book of Joshua where a guy kept some loot for himself and was outed and killed.

Women were told to be silent and subservient (in spite of 'heretical' sects and texts of Christianity where Jesus was instructing female disciples and they were acting as teachers - ironically the only extant sect that claimed Jesus was talking about Greek atomism and naturalism was one of these).

The religion was canonized right after the emperor of Rome converted, so guess what was canonized? A bunch of shit about how patriarchal monarchy is the divine plan. The saying attributed to Jesus about how someone who succeeded in life should rule and should only hold power temporarily obviously gets excluded and eventually the collection of sayings is punishable by death for even possessing it.

Even a lot of that stuff about "blessed is the poor" was probably from Paul who was separating fools from their money. Originally there's sayings about how those ministering shouldn't collect money, but this gets straight up reversed in a later edition of Luke and you can see Paul in 1 Cor 9 arguing that he is entitled to make a living off ministering and encouraging donations "for the poor in Jerusalem." But then elsewhere we see Paul was accepting expensive fragrant offerings from people. But that's ok, as then in the gospels you see Jesus keeps an expensive fragrant offering and yells at the people who criticize him for not selling it and giving the proceeds to the poor.

It's a bunch of feel good BS to con people out of their money. I don't think it was always that from the very start, and probably even had some interesting things going on initially, but almost immediately after Jesus is out of the picture the errant early tradition gets morphed into a traditional cult where power and wealth consolidates at the top and it preaches subservience and obedience and self-hatred so you beg for the idea of salvation and trade all that you have for a promise the people you turn everything over to can't fulfill.

So why would a group that wants power and wealth concentrated and to destroy democracy in favor of patriarchal authoritarianism be attractive to Christians? Because they've been being fattened up for that slaughter going on near two thousand years at this point.