this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
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[–] MsPenguinette@lemmy.world 127 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (9 children)

The comment section is wild. So many people thinking that the Japanese government is somehow late to the floppy free party. Clearly they have no idea how dire the IT infrastructure situation is for the most critical systems of the world's major super powers

If you think the US government is floppy free, let alone capable of going floppy free in the next 5 years, I've got a bridge to sell ya

[–] MissJinx@lemmy.world 31 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Not only because the infra is bad but also because floppy is "safer". It's not "connected"amd no one can invade it.

[–] MsPenguinette@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (3 children)
[–] I_poop_from_there@lemmy.world 49 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Security through obscurity would be having a system connected to a network, but relying on a secret / unknown protocol to secure it.

Air-gapping a system is a real and very useful security method. That being said, it's not enough by itself.

If you're interested, have a look at past examples, like the recent work on breaking Tetra communication standard and Stuxnet.

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[–] Rubanski@lemm.ee 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That's why I only communicate via poop/sparkle emoji Morse code

✨💩💩💩 ✨✨💩 ✨✨✨ 💩➿✨💩✨✨ ✨✨ 💩✨💩 ✨➿💩 ✨✨✨✨ ✨✨ ✨✨✨

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[–] qaz@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)
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[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 18 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Where are floppies used in the US government? Old mainframes are all over the place but where are floppies?

Japan just got an acute case of what a lot of western governments have - IT early adopter disease. These old systems were built using (at the time) revolutionary technology that was designed without much thought given to modularity or sun-setting.

[–] Baggie@lemmy.zip 29 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Iirc literally the nuclear launch systems? I'll see if I can find the article.

Edit: not anymore, but as recent as about 2019ish. Can't imagine they're the only ancient infrastructure still using this level of technology though. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/24/us/nuclear-weapons-floppy-disks.html

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[–] GBU_28@lemm.ee 11 points 4 months ago (4 children)

US gov isn't even tape free

[–] Jolteon@lemmy.zip 53 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Tape makes an excellent, dirt cheap, large scale backup solution. You can get a 30 TB tape for 45 bucks.

[–] ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world 15 points 4 months ago

As long as you test restoring those backups, which is where many entities fail.

[–] ggtdbz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Wish smaller scale tape storage was more viable for home use (homelab scale). Would love to have tapes instead of spinning drives for something like a home media server.

Last time I looked into it I didn’t even know where to start. Is it more feasible now? I’d imagine power consumption would also be better than keeping disks spinning all the time.

[–] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 15 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Tape is not great for things you actually want to access like media

[–] Jolteon@lemmy.zip 14 points 4 months ago

Yes, but it's great for your emergency backup copy of media.

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[–] PieMePlenty@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Its been a while since I used one but arent 3.5's unreliable? I still remember having problems with data integrity way back then. I dont remember them as some rock solid tech and I'd rather put my faith into 650MB CDs if I had to choose.

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[–] shortypants@lemmy.world 51 points 4 months ago (3 children)

They still have a love affair with faxes though. Thank God you can fax from 7 Eleven. You can do pretty much anything from 7 Eleven.

[–] Empricorn@feddit.nl 27 points 4 months ago (3 children)

You... can fax from 7-11? I need to know more about this!

[–] kevincox@lemmy.ml 44 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Convenience stores in Japan are much more than the cigarettes and lottery tickets of North America. They have lots of ready-to-eat food, snacks, drinks as well as some banking services, bill payments, faxing and more.

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[–] kalleboo@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Each 7-11 in Japan has one of those big business multicopiers. You can copy, print, scan, fax. The printing is sweet because it does photo printing on glossy paper, but also laser printing up to A3 size or even making custom post cards. They also have databases of paid content like sheet music and stuff you can print. I prefer Lawson/FamilyMart though since they also have sticker printing!

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 40 points 4 months ago (7 children)

I drew a floppy disk as part of a workplace online Pictionary game, only to find somebody I work with has never seen one.

We work in IT.

The rest of us tried to explain what they were and he was like "did you use them in a GameCube?" and "was it like a USB stick?"

[–] Laser 36 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I mean it was a bit like a USB stick. Just nobody made the comparison back then because USB didn't exist. But yes it is removable storage that is read/writable.

GameCube though...

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 11 points 4 months ago

Yeah, I'm starting to doubt he'd ever seen a GameCube either.

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[–] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 32 points 4 months ago (15 children)

Great job!

Although, using floppy disks has the advantage that everyone has to make sure their file sizes are small enough to fit on them. Which makes for much easier handling for those who don't use floppy disks.

[–] Lemming421@lemmy.world 75 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Unzipping archive. Please insert disk 34/2365

[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 41 points 4 months ago (1 children)

File read error on disk #2209.

[–] kamenlady@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

Installing Photoshop with disks was a chore, or rather a cumbersome task.

[–] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

or... you end up with more smaller files to keep track of in order to carry the same information that could've been in one large file

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 6 points 4 months ago

The best big data solution is those big boxes with 100 floppy disks. Just make sure you get one with the labels included. Not making that mistake again.

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[–] Jerkface@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago

On to Zip drives, then?

[–] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 17 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Maybe now they can switch to the magneto-optical disks like in Mission: Impossible.

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 13 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The funny thing was 1.44mb is probably enough to store a really really long list of names and codenames so...they could have used a normal floppy disk lol.

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[–] v4ld1z@lemmy.zip 15 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Imagine if Germany tried to do this. So much crucial infrastructure would simply collapse. Bureaucracy everywhere in Germany is based on and hinges on technologies from the past millennium: floppy disks, FAX etc. Jesus

[–] Gestrid@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Fax machines are actually still pretty widely used in corporate America (but not in households at all). Especially insurance and medical companies. I remember having to ask my dad years ago to fax something for me from his work (a bank's corporate office) since we didn't have one in the house. (I don't remember what the fax was for.)

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[–] ogmios@sh.itjust.works 8 points 4 months ago (3 children)

If it works well for the job that it's tasked to perform, why change it? It's got the added benefit of being an unintentional security feature now too, as very few others will even have a drive for reading them. Sort of like how manual transmissions are much less likely to be stolen now.

[–] kevincox@lemmy.ml 22 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This is a great point, but it probably doesn't do the job as well as more modern alternatives.

  1. Easy to lose, possible data leak concerns.
  2. Easy to retain data that should have been deleted.
  3. Easy to lose data if a disk gets lost or damaged.
  4. Likely wastes time when trying to track down the disk you need to getting someone to transfer it.
  5. Lack of access logs and auditing capabilities.
  6. Easy way for viruses to spread.

Modern IT managed file servers solve a lot of real problems when well-managed.

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[–] mp3@lemmy.ca 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

On the other hand, if you use an old technology that isn't being mass produced anymore, it can reach a point where it will become a big liability for a mission-critical piece of equipment.

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[–] tiredofsametab@kbin.run 7 points 4 months ago

The most practical reasons are that both the drives and media are getting harder to find.

[–] mo_lave@reddthat.com 7 points 4 months ago

At a broader level, this is why I stopped chasing after the cutting edge technology for the sake of it. If it vastly improves my everyday life, sure, I'll consider adopting. Otherwise, I'll just be miserable if it's not something I'm passionate about.

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