this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024

629 points (97.6% liked)

politics

19135 readers

2214 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

• News

• World News

• Business News

• Political Discussion

• Ask Politics

• Military News

• Global Politics

• Moderate Politics

• Progressive Politics

• UK Politics

• Canadian Politics

• Australian Politics

• New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

outrageousmatter@lemmy.world

aidan@lemmy.world

jordanlund@lemmy.world

HLMenckenFan@lemmy.world

little_cow@lemmy.world

629

If Trump wins the election, US cities are at risk of military takeovers and mass deportations (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 month ago by Theprogressivist@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

193 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Senior Democrats in US cities are preparing to defend their communities in the event of Donald Trump’s return to the White House after the former president has repeated threats that he would use presidential powers to seize control of major urban centers.

Trump has proposed deploying the military inside major cities largely run by Democrats to deal with protesters or to crush criminal gangs. He has threatened to dispatch large numbers of federal immigration agents to carry out mass deportations of undocumented people in so-called “sanctuary” cities.

He also aims to obliterate the progressive criminal justice policies of left-leaning prosecutors.

“In cities where there has been a complete breakdown of law and order … I will not hesitate to send in federal assets including the national guard until safety is restored,” Trump says in the campaign platform for his bid to become the 47th US president, Agenda47.

Trump provoked uproar earlier this week when he called for US armed forces to be deployed against his political rivals – “the enemy within” – on election day next month. But his plans to use national guard troops and military personnel as a means to attack those he sees as his opponents go much wider than that, spanning entire cities with Democratic leadership.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social 161 points 1 month ago (4 children)

I feel like everyone forgot what happened last time.

People in unmarked vans with no identifying patches or badges, just fatigues, grabbing people off the streets at night in the northwest.

Even worse than the official fascists, the unofficial ones who were emboldened to act with impunity, riding into cities and inciting violence. Attempting to run Kamala's bus off the road in 2020 in Texas.

Dems run like they want to lose. Always conceding the arguments of the fascists. Touting the endorsement of monsters like Dick Cheney. The kinds of monsters who made the Republican party what it is today.

If "senior democrats" actually gave a shit about avoiding conflict in the US, they'd actually be fighting for universal voting rights and eliminating FPTP voting.

[–] horse_battery_staple@lemmy.world 43 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Mega donors don't want anti fascist rhetoric because it cuts into the profit margins

[–] AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social 35 points 1 month ago

It's almost as if fascism and unbridled capitalism have some kind of a mutually beneficial relationship.

Weird.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Oh, I fuckin remember.

Honestly, if Trump somehow pulls out a win - and definitely, if he pulls out a win with some very clearly bullshit tactics involving GOP congressional leaders and the Tribunal of Six - I am completely serious when I say I expect an order of magnitude increase of political violence, up to and including a potential civil war. It’s that bad.

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 month ago (3 children)

A civil war is the only thing that can pull the US out of a Trump win, because fascists never give up power by choice and no one is coming to save us

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] in4aPenny@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think it's important to contextualize what a civil war in America nowadays would look like. It will be military vs police, national guard vs army, civilians vs government, etc. etc. Most Americans don't even have a shared history anymore, let alone present.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I’ve gone back and forth on what to do in the event of a Trump win. I’m honestly not sure what I should do at this point. Like yeah, I live here, and I want to defend the place I grew up in from fascists… but if the government just converts to fascism, I’m not sure there’s a way to save this place in it’s current incarnation. It’ll probably be Balkanized to one degree or another after a LOT of messy conflict. And the corollary there is that we won’t be backstopping global stability, like, at all any more, which will have a shitload of absolutely horrific effects in so, so many regions. And yeah - I get that a lot of countries resent American hegemony. As an American, we’ve done a pretty shit job of “defending democracy” (largely because authoritarian regimes are the more stable option for basing agreements). But at the same time, I can guaran-fucking-tee you that Russian and CCP hegemony will be worse.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

I want to leave too, but let me ask you this...

Where are you going to go that is safe from a doomsday cult with access to enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world a few times over?

We can make a bigger difference here, keeping the fascists too busy trying to get and maintain complete control to let those apocalypse dogs off their doom chains.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] leadore@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago

You hit it on the head. The unmarked vans, unbadged troops, people "disappearing"--those were their practice drills and how they'll do it. Uniformed troops will also be used in some situations (like the mass deportations), but the ones doing the daily dirty work against any demonstrators, specific political targets, etc. ("the enemy within") will be those incognito forces. 😧

[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 7 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Allowing direct sales from car manufacturers and cracking down on unregulated supplements would knee cap fascism immediately

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 59 points 1 month ago (31 children)

Correct, so maybe we could stop protesting Harris over Israel until AFTER the fucking election?

Just saying, we should probably stop the genocide coming for us before we try to stop the one not in our backyard? I mean it's going to be harder to get Israel to stop bombing Palestinian children and give humanitarian aide to said children while we're lined up for Trump's gas chambers

signed, a transgender woman who don't want to end up in a mass grave full of other AMAB individuals all of us wearing pink triangles!

[–] Machinist@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Fucking right?! Hate is being preached from the pulpit every Sunday supporting this clown and the machine pulling his strings.

In many places in this country our queer brothers and sisters are in mortal danger. These people hate and demonize the different and the other. It's an old playbook, but, it sure does work.

If you don't think the machine would put our people in camps; you're wearing blinders and don't know your history. Lives depend on this election.

load more comments (4 replies)

load more comments (30 replies)

[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 38 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No not ''at risk''. This is his NUMBER ONE policy promise. He's running on this. Explicitly. Why are we pretending it's not?

[–] tmyakal@lemm.ee 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Because last time his number one policy promise was to build a wall and have Mexico pay for it. And his number two promise was an alternative to Obamacare.

He's not so great at following through with his promises. That's the only thing non-MAGAs have going for them: he's pretty incompetent.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] aramis87@fedia.io 34 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So, ghettoes. And not the US ghettoes of the 60s and 70s, but the German ghettoes of the 30s and 40s.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] oce@jlai.lu 28 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do we have any idea of what military heads are thinking about that? Are they enthusiastic, mixed, or ready to oppose their commander in chief?

[–] Theprogressivist@lemmy.world 50 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Active duty isn't allowed to talk politics, but so far, some retired generals spoke out against Trump and endorsed Harris.

[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But on the flip side: go into any mess hall, on any base, and tell me what is on the tv for the news channel. I can guarantee that you won’t like the answer.

[–] Theprogressivist@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

Fox News, unfortunately.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

mass deportations of undocumented people

I feel like this is something that won't really happen. Despite conservative rhetoric and posturing about closed borders, the reality is that major parts of our economy - like agriculture, meat packing, restaurants and construction - are utterly dependent on undocumented immigrant labor. Mass deportations would be insanely difficult to actually achieve, and would cause enormous economic upheaval, what with the fact that fucking food and housing are apparently important to people. Not to say that conservatives would really give a shit about that, but the people hiring all these undocumented workers and exploiting their cheap labor are generally conservative and wouldn't want their cash cows disrupted.

On the other hand, I didn't think they would really do anything much about abortion either, since that's such a major thing to fire their base up about. I should probably never underestimate their willingness to destroy the whole country in order to hurt what passes for the Left here.

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago

I should probably never underestimate their willingness to destroy the whole country in order to hurt what passes for the Left here.

I think we should take them at their word. They are insane enough to do a wide variety of terrible things and ruin the country. As far as their rich backers go, everyone thinks they can control the monster they've unleashed until it's too late.

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

You do not execute orders that aren't moral. The US Military is not like the Russians. Although, I wouldn't depend completely on that.

load more comments (6 replies)

[–] Gumbyyy@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago (6 children)

But the constitution forbids the US military from operating within the borders of the US! Surely that'll stop him from ever being able to do this! Right? Right?????

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It also forbids warrantless search and seizure of property and the president from receiving financial gifts from foreign governments. The courts have been filled with people who don't care.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 10 points 1 month ago (3 children)

The constitution is a piece of paper which has no power if the people with guns say otherwise.

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Possibly? One might be able to make the case for the National Guard, but maybe the average person won't know/care about the difference when interacting with armed people in uniform.

Aside from that, I've noticed other Lemmings bring up the fact that the Armed Forces in general are sworn to uphold the US Constitution. As an organization, they may disregard orders that are in conflict with this. Of course, that comes down to interpretation of any individual in command, so despite loud protest to the contrary I personally wouldn't rely on that.

[–] ZMonster@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

As an organization, they may disregard orders that are in conflict with this. Of course, that comes down to interpretation of any individual in command, so despite loud protest to the contrary I personally wouldn't rely on that.

This is going to make me throw up a little, but I think the command leadership in recent years has really turned a heel on political alignment. And - hurk - I feel like they would do the honorable thing. You're not wrong though, obviously the military attracts right wing shit heads who believe what they want. So I would imagine that there would be a breakdown of the command at lower levels in scant instances; but brigade, division, corps, and post commanders usually follow rigorous and strict guidelines. Values are a big deal. But brainworm has been feeding on dumb dumbs and it doesn't appear to be starving any time soon.

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] Sine_Fine_Belli@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This is why liberal gun owners exist

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] thisorthatorwhatever@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (2 children)

A military takeover of the cities would last about 20minutes, if that, it's against the HOA rules.

What happens when the wealthy home owners see their property values drop, because the army is on every corner, they'll start calling their political reps.

This is a childish fantasy, the highest real estate values are in cities, the wealthiest people have homes in cities. It is a fantasy of the Republic base, that tends not to live in large urban centers.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You know he means the downtown core, not the suburban white people who likely voted for him. But I gave you an upvote for the hilarity of an HOA council member telling the Proud Boys they aren't allowed to setup there.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

US military personnel pledge an oath to protect the US Constitution from foreign and domestic enemies and that includes the Commander-in-Chief.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Did you guys watch that "documentary" Civil War?

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

So much suffering. That was so avoidable. I like that the point of movie isn't which ideology wins. It's that America isn't immune, any civil war will be a very dirty affair that causes massive amounts of suffering so nobody should be rooting for that path.

[–] uberdroog@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Oh goodie, this that whole reason we have the 2nd amendment thing? Should work out great.

[–] MoonRaven@feddit.nl 8 points 1 month ago

I guess he's seen the episode of deep space nine and thought it would be a good idea...

load more comments