this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2024
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[–] frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml 55 points 2 months ago (8 children)

the initial argument only applies to Utopian Socialism anyway – fighting for your personal interest is exactly the point of communism, destroying all the enemies of the working class

[–] lugal@sopuli.xyz 9 points 2 months ago (9 children)

Depends on the definition. Kropotkin, who self identified as anarcho communist, wrote a scientific book literally called Mutual Aid

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[–] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 53 points 2 months ago (1 children)

When you feed the poor, you're called a Saint

When you ask why the poor have no food, you're called a communist.

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I work a couple food service jobs and the waste brings a tear to my eye. And that's just what makes it to the restaurant. Oh this tomato doesn't look perfect? Throw it away.

Perfect tomato's for sale: $10 each.

Then the pile of perfect tomatos rot as hungry eyes look upon it from outside the store. (They aren't allowed inside, the vagrants might steal!) Rotten like the hearts of those who gatekeep necessities for profit and power.

[–] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

That just Is word for word the peak of "grapes of wrath "

"The oranges needed to be dumped in kerosene and burned. It is cheaper than dumping them in the river and making sure the poor don't take them... why? All for the sake of profit"

[–] EABOD25@lemm.ee 48 points 2 months ago (10 children)

People are neither inherently selfish or inherently generous. People are survivors regardless of what is necessary to do so. A human will give the shirt off his back to his neighbor but will spite a customer service worker because they're in a bad mood or feel slighted. Your tribe is your most important social aspect

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[–] NateNate60@lemmy.world 35 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, and eating hot dogs also goes against human nature. That shit didn't exist in 3,500 BCE.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (2 children)

are you really saying emulsified rat lips, chicken trimmings, porkins, and beef slurry didn't exist in 3500 BCE?

[–] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

Not in such a convenient package!

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[–] jimitsoni18@lemmy.zip 32 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (11 children)

I know I would be attacked by entire fediverse, but I want to say that charity also has egoism as backing cause. People help other people because it makes them feel good. And people expect themselves to be noticed or praised or rewarded, even if they tell themselves and everyone else that they don't.

Also don't presume that I am a capitalist, before you decide to attack me.

[–] hikaru755@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago (7 children)

I mean, you're not wrong, but your point is also kinda meaningless. Of course, you only ever do things because there's something in it for you, even if that something is just feeling good about yourself. If there was truly nothing in it for you, then why would you do it?

But that misses the point of the "people are inherently selfish" vs "people are inherently generous" discussion, because it's not actually about whether people do things only for themselves at the most literal level, instead it's about whether people inherently get something out of doing things for others without external motivation. So your point works the same on both sides of the argument.

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[–] witx@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Kind of. I agree partly. My mother used to knit winter clothes, for free, for some institutions and she wasn't the one delivering them. They never knew who she was, and she didn't bother.

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[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 31 points 2 months ago (3 children)

The very existence of society and the fact that we aren't blindly killing eachother for resources proves that civilization is not based on humanities animalistic instincts. Therefore the claim that humans cannot overcome their own base instincts (as claimed by many Liberals) would imply that we are no morally or intellectually superior to animals.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 22 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Even animals are not based on such "animalistic instinct", most of animals cooperate on some level.

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Indeed, all intelligent creatures are capable of acting beyond what is strictly needed for survival.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Cooperation is needed for survival in many cases, or at least improve the odds.

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[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 29 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Charity can serve as a means of control. This is way Republicans advocate against social services.

The government cannot mandate that you attend church to receive EBT. A church can require you attend a service to feed you.

I’ve heard from friends in Utah, for example, that access to many social services is through the church. Friend was trying to rescue a girl from FLDS - pretty much all job training/housing required she play along with mainstream Mormonism.

Orgs like the Salvation Army are known to require trans people to detransition to recieve services as well.

Another benefit is the rent seeking - Goodwill is a good example. You can still turn a profit with the right combination of PR, and tying access to services based on things that’ll make you profit (Goodwill “provides employment” for disabled people - they are legally allowed to pay them far below minimum wage.)

It’s the two pillars of the contemporary Right - control and grifting.

[–] exanime@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Charity can also be used as a tax avoidance scheme and weaponized for political purposes; this is why the rich love it, through charity they are able to help themselves even further

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago

We will feed you if you believe in our religion and work our fields, your true reward for your good works and piety will wait for you in heaven.

It's like your pension plan in the sky.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Considering Ayn Rand's novels as literature was a mistake.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 months ago

"One of the USSRs biggest mistakes was giving Ayn Rand an education"

[–] bufalo1973@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago

"And when all those self made champions went away and created a new society, free of the old one, one of them asked 'does anyone of us know how to cook?'. And then they screamed in fear".

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[–] DarkCloud@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago (37 children)

We're always going to end up with people who can manipulate a crowd being in charge. We're stupid like that.

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[–] walthervonstolzing@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 months ago

It's either this fairy tale, or its flip side, the myth that 'private vices' somehow add up to 'public virtues'.

[–] xenoclast@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

We are also born unable to care for ourselves. Or speak. Or...

[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Kids don’t want to work these days

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Communism Killed 100 Zillion People

Now the massive population of China and Venezuela and Vietnam and Cuba and California are going to take over the world

No, they aren't doing Real Communism. That's just Authoritarian State Capitalism.

Yes, we have to fight them. That's why we need the western governments to spend trillions of dollars on private military services.

We have to kill all 100 Zillion of them. Because they've been infected with the Mind Virus of Communism.

[–] TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I honestly can't tell if this is sarcastic or not. There are too many people out there that sound just like this.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The zillion part definitely made me lean towards sarcasm, but I guess I can never be too sure with all the brainrot and bots out there. The Red Scare still lingers.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)

The Red Scare never died, and the Cold War never ended.

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