this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2024
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I have been seeing plenty of guillhotine and mollotov jokes here, and as the title says, punching nazis.

I've been reading a book about nonviolence and anarchism, and he basically shows how we shouldn't use violence, even in extreme cases (like neo nazis).

The main argument is that the means dictates the ends, so if we want a non violent (and non opressing) society, punching people won't help.

And if it is just a joke, you should probably know that some people have been jailed for decades because of jokes like these (see: avoiding the fbi, second chapter of the book above).

Obviously im up for debate, or else I wouldn't make this post. And yes, I do stand for nonviolence.

(english is not my first language, im sorry if I made errors, or wansn't clear.)

(if this is not pertinent, I can remake this post in c/politics or something)

(the book is The Anarchist Cookbook by Keith McHenry, if you are downloading from the internet, make sure you download it from the correct author, there is another book with the same name.)

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[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Fyi, from what I've read anarchists reject the cookbook and interpret it as being pro-government while also having inaccurate and dangerous recipes. There are better resources for the latter (including official military handbooks), while the former encourages people to roll over and take whatever abuse they're handed.

When it comes to punching Nazis, would I actually do it IRL? I'm not sure. It'd probably depend on whether I'm in a "fuck it, we ball" kinda mood or not. If I am, then I'm absolutely going to try and wreck the Nazi to the best of my ability. They might not get back up. If not, then I'd probably just roll my eyes, lose a little more faith in humanity, and keep going.

What you need to realize is that the Nazi would absolutely do the same to you, possibly worse, if given the chance; and people are too busy to research every single person they come across and are too desensitized to respond to "he's literally a Nazi" (America's right wing did a great job of painting "Nazi" as being meaningless in a modern context). That makes it very easy for them to lie to the general population about their goals.

Look at how far Trump and Vance have gotten. They literally support Nazis and Klansmen (Ku Klux Klan), yet people seemed to actually believe that Biden was as bad as Trump. It wasn't until Trump started talking about Hatians eating pets at a national debate that people stopped and were like, "damn, what the fuck?"

What if he hadn't though? What if he'd managed to keep his cool and pretend to be normal? The thing that scares me is that I think he might still have a chance, simply because I think the recent debate may have inspired false confidence in Democrats.

Nazis, Klansmen, bigoted institutions in general, will take a mile if you give them an inch, and proceed to wrap it around your neck and hang you from a tree with it; and they're very good at getting what they want because they'll literally eat shit if they believe it'll help them win. They believe utopia is achieved through oppression and mass murder; wouldn't you do anything you can to achieve utopia if you think it's in arms reach, especially when the path is obvious thanks to the efforts of prior fascists?

That's why you punch Nazis. That's why people say that the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. A Nazi's idea of utopia is forged with blood and torment; and they're willing to do anything to make it a reality.

[–] yamanii@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Not very many I bet since everyone is an internet tough guy, I never actually fought in my life.

[–] MattTheProgrammer@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

Hey, you guys are going Nazi punching? Can I join?

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

2020 was a glorious year for punching fascists.

[–] c0smokram3r@midwest.social 3 points 2 months ago

Download for the version OP mentioned, from Internet Archive. Had to shorten it:

https://tini.fyi/hJpj0

Be safe out in them streets ☮️

[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

The most serious. I will go to court over it.

[–] Seraph@fedia.io 3 points 2 months ago

The one thing fascists can't stand is to be laughed at. Don't take them seriously - laugh at them and it hits harder than a gut punch.

[–] originalfrozenbanana@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago
[–] shinigamiookamiryuu@lemm.ee 3 points 2 months ago

I can only imagine punching as a preventive/retaliatory act. Of note, I have met many people who went down an alarming path who would nevertheless not themselves wish a fly grief. However, I should note that in Nazi Germany, violence and even murder was "legal" as long as the violent person didn't beat around the bush in doing the act.

[–] That_Devil_Girl@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Not at all serious. If I see a Nazi walking down the street, I'm more likely to ignore or avoid him rather than confront him.

If the Nazis take over and implement Project 2025, among other evil acts, then that's a different situation.

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[–] beliquititious@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 2 months ago

Nonviolence is a lofty, and unattainable ideal. Unless you can create something that prevents violence in an absolute, physical sense or can successfully breed out the sadistic elements of humanity it will forever be subject to the whims of charismatic violent people. World history, at least from the perspective of governing authority, is nothing but physical and psychological violence.

The Buddhists would tell you that life is duhkah (suffering). Trying to force any order onto only increases suffering. The french existentialists would tell them that the only thing you can do about it is to laugh in the face of the absurdity of existence. Then they'd go to a bar and the buddhists would watch the existentialists drink themselves to oblivion respectfully and with a detached interest.

Anarchism, nonviolence, and philosophy in general, rarely align with your subjective lived experience. The best way to deal with Nazis is not to punch them, but to live your life the best you can and try to have as much fun with other humans as is possible. If you engage with them on their terms, those of violence and hate, they've already won. Hug a nazi, especially if you're part of a demographic they hate. Treat them like you would a slow child. Education, empathy, and kindness beat the nazi next door. Unfortunately though once they establish their fourth Reich like it seems they are close to, you have to wield collective hard power (tanks, predator drones, and boots on the ground).

You, the human reading this, will accomplish nothing by punching a nazi, hug them or ignore them until it's time to fight them collectively.

[–] n3m37h@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 months ago

I've never seen one but I tell you what, if I see one, I will beat the living fuck outa em

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