this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2024
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[–] EnderMB@lemmy.world 40 points 5 months ago

I remember joining the industry and switching our company over to full Continuous Integration and Deployment. Instead of uploading DLL's directly to prod via FTP, we could verify each build, deploy to each environment, run some service tests to see if pages were loading, all the way up to prod - with rollback. I showed my manager, and he shrugged. He didn't see the benefit of this happening when, in his eyes, all he needed to do was drag and drop, and load the page to make sure all is fine.

Unsurprisingly, I found out that this is how he builds websites to this day...

[–] stembolts@programming.dev 37 points 5 months ago (6 children)

This application looks fine to me.

Clearly labeled sections.

Local on one side, remote on the other

Transfer window on bottom.

No space for anything besides function, is the joke going over my head?

[–] tiramichu@lemm.ee 43 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (8 children)

I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the program at all =)

Modern webapp deployment approach is typically to have an automated continuous build and deployment pipeline triggered from source control, which deploys into a staging environment for testing, and then promotes the same precise tested artifacts to production. Probably all in the cloud too.

Compared to that, manually FTPing the files up to the server seems ridiculously antiquated, to the extent that newbies in the biz can't even believe we ever did it that way. But it's genuinely what we were all doing not so long ago.

[–] 30p87@feddit.de 18 points 5 months ago (11 children)

manually FTPing the files up to the server seems ridiculously antiquated

But ... but I do that, and I'm only 18 :(

[–] Poiar@sh.itjust.works 8 points 5 months ago

Old soul :)

[–] xtapa@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 5 months ago

It's perfectly fine for some private page etc. but when you make business software for customers that require 99,9% uptime with severe contractual penalties it's probably too wonky.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 4 points 5 months ago

Think of this like saying using a scythe to mow your lawn is antiquated. If your lawn is tiny then it doesn't really matter. But we're talking about massive "enterprise scale" lawns lol. You're gonna want something you can drive.

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[–] jet@hackertalks.com 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Promotes/deploys are just different ways of saying file transfer, which is what we see here.

Nothing was stopping people from doing cicd in the old days.

[–] tiramichu@lemm.ee 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Sure, but having a hands-off pipeline for it which runs automatically is where the value is at.

Means that there's predictability and control in what is being done, and once the pipeline is built it's as easy as a single button press to release.

How many times when doing it manually have you been like "Oh shit, I just FTPd the WRONG STUFF up to production!" - I know I have. Or even worse you do that and don't notice you did it.

Automation takes a lot of the risk out.

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[–] lightnegative@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

But it's genuinely what we were all doing not so long ago

Jokes on you, my first job was editing files directly in production. It was for a webapp written in Classic ASP. To add a new feature, you made a copy of the current version of the page (eg index2_new.asp became index2_new_v2.asp) and developed your feature there by hitting the live page with your web browser.

When you were ready to deploy, you modified all the other pages to link to your new page

Good times!

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[–] blackn1ght@feddit.uk 6 points 5 months ago

The joke isn't the program itself, it's the process of deploying a website to servers.

[–] trustnoone@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This application looks fine to me.

Clearly labeled sections.

Local on one side, remote on the other

Transfer window on bottom

Thats how you know its old. Its not caked full of ads, insanely locked down, and trying yo sell you a subscription service.

[–] ed_cock@feddit.de 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Except that FileZilla does come with bundled adware from their sponsors and they do want you to pay for the pro version. It probably is the shittiest GPL-licensed piece of software I can think of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FileZilla#Bundled_adware_issues

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[–] annoyed_onion@lemmy.world 25 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

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[–] FQQD@lemmy.ohaa.xyz 21 points 5 months ago (4 children)

People don't use FileZilla for server management anymore? I feel like I've missed that memo.

[–] RonSijm@programming.dev 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I suppose in the days of 'Cloud Hosting' a lot of people (hopefully) don't just randomly upload new files (manually) on a server anymore.

Even if you still just use normal servers that behave like this, a better practice would be to have a build server that creates builds, like whenever you check code into the Main branch, it'll create a deploy for the server, and you deploy it from there - instead of compiling locally, opening filezilla and doing an upload.

If you're using 'Cloud Hosting' - for example AWS - If you use VMs or bare metal - you'd maybe create Elastic Beanstalk images and upload a new Application or Machine Image as a new version, and deploy that in a more managed way. Or if you're using Docker, you just upload a new Docker image into a Docker registry and deploy those.

[–] dan@upvote.au 3 points 5 months ago (3 children)

For some of my sites, I still build on my PC and rsync the build directory across. I've been meaning to set up Gitlab or something similar and configure automated deployments.

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[–] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I remember this. I also remember using scp instead. And ftp, if I go back far enough. rsync is still my friend though zfs has mostly replaced it now.

[–] BoneALisa@lemm.ee 15 points 5 months ago (1 children)

How has zfs replaced rsync for you? One is a filesystem, and the other is a filesyncing tool. Does zfs do something im not aware of lol?

[–] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I used to use rsync to copy data from my storage array on one machine to an external and an off site backup. Since a lot of it was code, it always took forever to scan all the small files, and I had to script unlocking remote partitions.

With encrypted ZFS, I can just zfs snap then zfs send, and it does the same thing at the block level, raw, so way faster, less data transfer, and no need to send a key or passphrase unless I need to mount it at the destination (meaning a cloud provider could never know the data, for instance).

ZFS is also recursive, so if I have s/storage and /storage/stuff defined, I can snap and send either level, which makes it as versatile as rsync.

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[–] probableprotogen@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 5 months ago

FTP and rsync my beloved

[–] finkrat@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

A lot are still doing that and haven't moved up

(Please at least use SFTP!)

[–] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I mean, a lot of docker files out there with COPY . .

[–] Opisek@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

True, but building the image is not the same as deploying to production.

[–] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago
[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I used CuteFTP, but I am a gentleman

[–] sverit@lemmy.ml 11 points 5 months ago

"Felt cute, might transfer files later, idk"

[–] Fades@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)
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[–] Krakaval@jlai.lu 9 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Somehow I miss those days. Now you need weeks of training to understand the black magic behind all the build/deployment stuff in whatever cloud provider your company decided to use…

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[–] umbraroze@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago

There's still a few sites I deploy changes to using ssh+rsync. ...which is made considerably easier by the fact that it's just a static website generated with Jekyll.

[–] TechNerdWizard42@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You will pry ftp from my cold dead hands.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Can you use sftp instead? Pwease? 🥺

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[–] Shadow@lemmy.ca 6 points 5 months ago (3 children)

FileZilla isn't even that old school, cuteftp was the OG one afaik.

[–] ashitaka@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago (7 children)

No way, WS_FTP was more OG.

[–] HAL_9_TRILLION@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Oh god, I know all of these.

Also fuck Tim Kosse. Bundled Filezilla with malware and fucked up my machine in 2014. Had to reinstall Windows. I'll never use it again.

I use WinSCP on Windows and Forklift on MacOS.

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[–] zzx@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago (2 children)

This is how I deployed an app less than 5 years ago (healthcare).

It's sad

[–] drathvedro@lemm.ee 5 points 5 months ago

I know a place where they still do this. They've got an 8-digit user count, 7 digit monthly profits, all running on one server that costs something like $20 a month. They've downsized a few years ago to single-digit employee number and just sit there and collect profits. And this is why I'm now working for a company that casually dropped a few grand for a glorified CPU usage meter and a few grand on top of that for deployment tool that does the same thing that the old guy at a former place was doing with his trusty FTP client.

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[–] Zip2@feddit.uk 5 points 5 months ago

Oh please, you didn’t even have to turn the cassette or floppy disc over. You and your luxuries.

[–] Kedly@lemm.ee 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I am currently updating a minecraft server soooooo

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

if your hosting provider 1) is not yourself and 2) requires you to use anything like filezilla, get a new hosting provider

[–] shikogo@pawb.social 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Unless you're using Linode or something other general purpose VPS which you have installed a Minecraft server onto, having to use anything other than a WebUI to exchange files with the server really strikes me as sketchy. A dedicated can't-run-anything-else Minecraft hosting provider even giving random users SSH access is sketchy enough but requiring you to use it to update the game... that level of not having an IT guy is just a security nightmare waiting to happen.

Guessing by your comment that you've actually rented a general purpose Linux VPS and not gotten suckered into Honest Pete's Discount CreeperHost. In that case, carry on.

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[–] brlemworld@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago (7 children)

I never liked FileZilla. I used Cyberduck

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[–] kuberoot@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This is from before my times, but... Deploying an app by uploading a pre built bundle? If it's a fully self-contained package, that seems good to me, perhaps better than many websites today...

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